OK Back To Recruiting

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OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Nashmann »

lol...need something else to talk about besides Tyrin saga....sick of the G-league and Tyrin threads.

How many spots to we have open now? 2 plus TL or 1 plus TL?
Last edited by Nashmann on Thu May 18, 2023 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

Nashmann wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 11:41 am
How many spots to we have open now? 2 plus TL or 1 plus TL?
3 total open scholarships.

I'm expecting a transfer commit in the next day or so.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by dore74 »

have seen some hints on twitter that it might be a biggie (as Johnny Carson would have said) to boot.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Obvious »

There is a crystal ball to Vanderbilt for a new signee. I don’t subscribe to the site so I don’t know who it is yet.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Jason94 »

Obvious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:17 pm There is a crystal ball to Vanderbilt for a new signee. I don’t subscribe to the site so I don’t know who it is yet.
Looks like it might be Ven-Allen Lubin. That would be a fantastic get.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Obvious »

Jason94 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:59 pm
Obvious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:17 pm There is a crystal ball to Vanderbilt for a new signee. I don’t subscribe to the site so I don’t know who it is yet.
Looks like it might be Ven-Allen Lubin. That would be a fantastic get.
Those are the hints I’ve been getting. Derrien Ford should be announcing soon as well. Ford had limited minutes last year but is a freak athlete. Would probably be the most athletic guy on the team if he signs.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Both Lubin and Ford have VU crystal balls on 247. How would people feel going into next season with that roster?
Some things that stand out to me and/or leave me wondering:
- the team would be VERY young, with primarily true freshmen and sophomores who mostly saw very limited college PT last year
- signing Ford would lead me to believe the staff doesn’t have much hope in Ty Lawrence returning
- barring Lawrence returning, I would hope the third and final scholarship goes to a true five or very solid stretch 4 who can grab defensive rebounds
- despite the youth, this would be one of the most athletic VU squads in recent memory
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Jason94 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:12 pm Both Lubin and Ford have VU crystal balls on 247. How would people feel going into next season with that roster?
Some things that stand out to me and/or leave me wondering:
- the team would be VERY young, with primarily true freshmen and sophomores who mostly saw very limited college PT last year
- signing Ford would lead me to believe the staff doesn’t have much hope in Ty Lawrence returning
- barring Lawrence returning, I would hope the third and final scholarship goes to a true five or very solid stretch 4 who can grab defensive rebounds
- despite the youth, this would be one of the most athletic VU squads in recent memory
If we added Lubin then our rotation probably includes the following players:

Manjon, Taylor, Smith, Lubin, Dort, and Lewis. Then you have West, Rivera-Torres, Pressley, Roberts, and Lang fighting for PT and a rotation spot (potentially a starting opportunity as well). In my mind Ford is thrown into the mix, but there isn't any particular reason to think he would necessarily be ahead of any the recruits we have.

I agree that we need more post depth. Even if Lubin is added there would be very little experience at the 4 and 5. I feel pretty good about the talent at the 4 and think without any additions we might end up going small with Lubin at the 5.

Given the way rosters turnover, I don't see why we wouldn't want to have another option at the 5. Even if Dort makes a massive jump and becomes a legit starting SEC center (which is not improbable), he won't be able to play 40 mpg, and likely won't be able to play 30.

I think we have a lot of options at the 1, 2 and 3. Manjon, Lewis and West should all be able to play the 1, Taylor, West and Rivera-Torres can play the 2, and Pressley, Roberts, Rivera-Torres and Taylor can all play the wing forward spot. Even Smith can play there if needed. I don't know that any of the freshmen are sure-fire starters, but I can say the same of Ford, who is talented but inexperienced.

I see two good scorers in Manjon and Taylor, and hopefully Smith will be a good 3rd option. There would still be major questions of where the production comes from the center and 2nd wing spot. Lots of talent but most of it completely unproven.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Nashmann »

Lubin and Ford would be great gets!!! Then we need a 7 footer :)
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Vandy187187 »

What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by alathIN »

Jason94 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 6:07 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:12 pm Both Lubin and Ford have VU crystal balls on 247. How would people feel going into next season with that roster?
Some things that stand out to me and/or leave me wondering:
- the team would be VERY young, with primarily true freshmen and sophomores who mostly saw very limited college PT last year
- signing Ford would lead me to believe the staff doesn’t have much hope in Ty Lawrence returning
- barring Lawrence returning, I would hope the third and final scholarship goes to a true five or very solid stretch 4 who can grab defensive rebounds
- despite the youth, this would be one of the most athletic VU squads in recent memory
If we added Lubin then our rotation probably includes the following players:

Manjon, Taylor, Smith, Lubin, Dort, and Lewis. Then you have West, Rivera-Torres, Pressley, Roberts, and Lang fighting for PT and a rotation spot (potentially a starting opportunity as well). In my mind Ford is thrown into the mix, but there isn't any particular reason to think he would necessarily be ahead of any the recruits we have.

I agree that we need more post depth. Even if Lubin is added there would be very little experience at the 4 and 5. I feel pretty good about the talent at the 4 and think without any additions we might end up going small with Lubin at the 5.

Given the way rosters turnover, I don't see why we wouldn't want to have another option at the 5. Even if Dort makes a massive jump and becomes a legit starting SEC center (which is not improbable), he won't be able to play 40 mpg, and likely won't be able to play 30.

I think we have a lot of options at the 1, 2 and 3. Manjon, Lewis and West should all be able to play the 1, Taylor, West and Rivera-Torres can play the 2, and Pressley, Roberts, Rivera-Torres and Taylor can all play the wing forward spot. Even Smith can play there if needed. I don't know that any of the freshmen are sure-fire starters, but I can say the same of Ford, who is talented but inexperienced.

I see two good scorers in Manjon and Taylor, and hopefully Smith will be a good 3rd option. There would still be major questions of where the production comes from the center and 2nd wing spot. Lots of talent but most of it completely unproven.
My wild guess: Dort's play on court will be significantly improved but he will struggle to stay out of foul trouble.
This often seems to be the last hurdle for post players. When they're freshmen they're foul prone, but their playing as a backup to someone else so it doesn't matter as much. Then their game improves and you'd like to give them more minutes... but it's limited by how fast they pick up fouls.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Obvious »

Vandy187187 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:21 pm What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
Quality 7 footers don’t grow on trees. If he’s injured then you worry about it. Such is the case for every team.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Obvious »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 5:12 pm Both Lubin and Ford have VU crystal balls on 247. How would people feel going into next season with that roster?
Some things that stand out to me and/or leave me wondering:
- the team would be VERY young, with primarily true freshmen and sophomores who mostly saw very limited college PT last year
- signing Ford would lead me to believe the staff doesn’t have much hope in Ty Lawrence returning
- barring Lawrence returning, I would hope the third and final scholarship goes to a true five or very solid stretch 4 who can grab defensive rebounds
- despite the youth, this would be one of the most athletic VU squads in recent memory
I would really like the talent of that roster and we know Stackhouse can coach. It would be a matter of how fast can it all come together. Maybe the last spot goes to someone with experience. Of course, my perfect scenario would be Lubin, Ford, and Tyrin.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by commadore »

Obvious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 3:09 pm
Jason94 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:59 pm
Obvious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:17 pm There is a crystal ball to Vanderbilt for a new signee. I don’t subscribe to the site so I don’t know who it is yet.
Looks like it might be Ven-Allen Lubin. That would be a fantastic get.
Those are the hints I’ve been getting. Derrien Ford should be announcing soon as well. Ford had limited minutes last year but is a freak athlete. Would probably be the most athletic guy on the team if he signs.
4 star transfer.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Jason94 »

commadore wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 8:11 pm
Obvious wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 3:09 pm
Jason94 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 2:59 pm

Looks like it might be Ven-Allen Lubin. That would be a fantastic get.
Those are the hints I’ve been getting. Derrien Ford should be announcing soon as well. Ford had limited minutes last year but is a freak athlete. Would probably be the most athletic guy on the team if he signs.
4 star transfer.
Harvey and Frank were both 4 star transfers. I don't really have any particular reason to think he might be better than any of the wing freshmen that we have coming in. This isn't a slight on Ford - I think the freshmen we have coming in a pretty talented. But so is Noah Shelby and Malik Dia. Until someone has played against D1 opponents it is difficult to know which ones will work out unless they are sure fire 5 star talents and even then it isn't guaranteed. At this point I'd prefer if we had someone who was not nearly as highly recruited, but has a record of success against D1 opponents, even if it is against mid or low-major competition.

That is the beauty of the portal for teams that take advantage of it. It provides an opportunity for us to go after players who are a lower risk of washing out. Maybe Taylor doesn't work out, but I would be very surprised. OTOH I would be very surprised if all three of Presley, Rivera-Torres and Roberts all three worked out. Teams that hit the portal hard every season are the teams that will invariably be ahead of those who rely upon non-5 star freshmen.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by mathguy »

Vandy187187 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:21 pm What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
Then we remember the time Vandy made the sweet 16 with Ross Neltner pretending he was a center.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Obvious »

mathguy wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:16 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:21 pm What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
Then we remember the time Vandy made the sweet 16 with Ross Neltner pretending he was a center.
And Dan cage at power forward
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:16 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:21 pm What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
Then we remember the time Vandy made the sweet 16 with Ross Neltner pretending he was a center.
I love small lineups and think they can work like they did in 93 as well with Elder at PF, but both the 93 and 07 teams had all Americans in the lineups and a ton of experience. It won't be quite so simple to plug and play a freshman or sophomore into that slot and expect no issues. The '07 team had Foster, Byars, Neltner, Cage and Gordon starting - two seniors (one 5th year) and three juniors (one 4th year). The '93 team had McCaffery, MacMahon, Anglin, Elder and Lawson starting - Two seniors (one 5th year), two 4th year juniors and a sophomore starting.

We do not currently have the luxury of experience on the team. Unless Lawrence returns, we are almost certainly starting a wing that has very little or zero college experience.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by mathguy »

Jason94 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 10:29 am
mathguy wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:16 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Wed May 17, 2023 7:21 pm What if Dort gets an injury next year like he did this year? Then what?
Then we remember the time Vandy made the sweet 16 with Ross Neltner pretending he was a center.
I love small lineups and think they can work like they did in 93 as well with Elder at PF, but both the 93 and 07 teams had all Americans in the lineups and a ton of experience. It won't be quite so simple to plug and play a freshman or sophomore into that slot and expect no issues. The '07 team had Foster, Byars, Neltner, Cage and Gordon starting - two seniors (one 5th year) and three juniors (one 4th year). The '93 team had McCaffery, MacMahon, Anglin, Elder and Lawson starting - Two seniors (one 5th year), two 4th year juniors and a sophomore starting.

We do not currently have the luxury of experience on the team. Unless Lawrence returns, we are almost certainly starting a wing that has very little or zero college experience.
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that we're not going to be the '07 team next year. Not really my point though.

My point is that teams win in different ways. And when you have a good coach (and we do!) that coach figures out how to maximize the team that you have. I'm not arguing that we're a sweet 16 team. I'm arguing that you can win big, you can win medium, and you can win small ... and if Dort gets hurt? Well, next man up! We'll still have talent on our team and we'll just have to see what we can do with it.
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Re: OK Back To Recruiting

Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 1:28 pm
Jason94 wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 10:29 am
mathguy wrote: Thu May 18, 2023 5:16 am

Then we remember the time Vandy made the sweet 16 with Ross Neltner pretending he was a center.
I love small lineups and think they can work like they did in 93 as well with Elder at PF, but both the 93 and 07 teams had all Americans in the lineups and a ton of experience. It won't be quite so simple to plug and play a freshman or sophomore into that slot and expect no issues. The '07 team had Foster, Byars, Neltner, Cage and Gordon starting - two seniors (one 5th year) and three juniors (one 4th year). The '93 team had McCaffery, MacMahon, Anglin, Elder and Lawson starting - Two seniors (one 5th year), two 4th year juniors and a sophomore starting.

We do not currently have the luxury of experience on the team. Unless Lawrence returns, we are almost certainly starting a wing that has very little or zero college experience.
Well, I think it's pretty obvious that we're not going to be the '07 team next year. Not really my point though.

My point is that teams win in different ways. And when you have a good coach (and we do!) that coach figures out how to maximize the team that you have. I'm not arguing that we're a sweet 16 team. I'm arguing that you can win big, you can win medium, and you can win small ... and if Dort gets hurt? Well, next man up! We'll still have talent on our team and we'll just have to see what we can do with it.
I get what you are arguing, but there is a limit to this IMO. It can work when you have a lot of experience (like playing Wright at post after Robbins went down), or if you have a bunch of killer guards. I'm pretty comfortable that if we had Manjon, Lawrence, Taylor, Smith and Lubin that we could win with that lineup. But replace Lawrence with a freshman and it becomes a whole lot more difficult to make the tournament. And that was my point - it is obvious that we probably don't have an SEC-Championship level team, but we should want to have a NCAA tournament level team. And losing Dort would certainly hurt that effort.
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