Last Year's Starting 5

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Last Year's Starting 5

Post by vandy86 »

Think about it. Last year's starting 5 one time or another has transferred or graduated.
Rollins-G, Lawrence -T, Jordon -T, Thomas -T, QMB- T, Stute- T
What other major 5 team can say this?


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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Obvious »

vandy86 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am Think about it. Last year's starting 5 one time or another has transferred or graduated.
Rollins-G, Lawrence -T, Jordon -T, Thomas -T, QMB- T, Stute- T
What other major 5 team can say this?
Rollins?
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Obvious »

Obvious wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 9:00 am
vandy86 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:59 am Think about it. Last year's starting 5 one time or another has transferred or graduated.
Rollins-G, Lawrence -T, Jordon -T, Thomas -T, QMB- T, Stute- T
What other major 5 team can say this?
Rollins?
Oh robbins. Sorry. Jordan also graduated. Lawrence tested the nba waters and entered the transfer portal but has not transferred. stute quit on the team before the season ended. QMB has been graduated. And Trey Thomas is Trey Thomas. Each player has a unique story.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by vandy86 »

Oops! Yes it should have been Rollins. My mistake.
So Lawrence is still a Commodore ? Glad to hear that ,can't wait to watch him in the black and gold once again.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by vandy86 »

Oops! Yes it should have been Rollins. My mistake.
So Lawrence is still a Commodore ? Glad to hear that ,can't wait to watch him in the black and gold once again.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Obvious »

vandy86 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 11:07 am Oops! Yes it should have been Rollins. My mistake.
So Lawrence is still a Commodore ? Glad to hear that ,can't wait to watch him in the black and gold once again.
Lawrence currently doesn’t have a team. It’s still possible that he can return to Vanderbilt. He visited UGA and Auburn and has not signed with either.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by vandy05 »

I can't name any schools, but I feel confident that we're probably not the only school in this situation given the craziness out there.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by MrMemorial »

vandy05 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:46 am I can't name any schools, but I feel confident that we're probably not the only school in this situation given the craziness out there.
By mid-April there were at least 6 mid-major conference that had lost between 30 and 40 percent of their roster to the portal.

per a recent article:
According to a study performed by The Athletic, over 60% of players who transferred to a “Power-6” program saw their minutes decline with their new team and even more saw their scoring drop. A concerningly high number of players who enter the portal never play again, as well. About 43% of transfer portal entrants after the 2021-2022 season did not make it onto a roster for the 2022-2023 season.

^ ^ this should be on the portal entry form and the athlete should have to "X" the box that they understood what they just read
Last edited by MrMemorial on Wed May 10, 2023 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Obvious »

MrMemorial wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:12 pm
vandy05 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 10:46 am I can't name any schools, but I feel confident that we're probably not the only school in this situation given the craziness out there.
By mid-April there were at least 6 mid-major conference that had lost between 30 and 40 percent of their roster to the portal.

per a recent article:
According to a study performed by The Athletic, over 60% of players who transferred to a “Power-6” program saw their minutes decline with their new team and even more saw their scoring drop. A concerningly high number of players who enter the portal never play again, as well. About 43% of transfer portal entrants after the 2021-2022 season did not make it onto a roster for the 2022-2023 season.
This is interesting. Maybe in the near future there will be sufficient data to deter players from the transfer portal.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Versus75 »

If you transfer “down” to Rice, Bowling Green or The Citadel you expect to get more PT. Doesn’t always work that way.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by MrMemorial »

Versus75 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am If you transfer “down” to Rice, Bowling Green or The Citadel you expect to get more PT. Doesn’t always work that way.
Jacksonville State finished 13-18/6-12 last season.

Peyton Daniels averaged 6ppg and had more turnovers than assists. He only started 7 games.

Sometimes that is how it works out. Akeem Odusipe is in the portal again and will be lucky if he ends up D-2 or maybe NAIA. When he left VU, he should have transferred to somewhere like North Alabama or Bellarmine... newcomers to D-1 basketball. Not Kent State where they have had a ton of talent for a while. They have had over 20 wins 10 times since 2010.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Jason94 »

MrMemorial wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 11:09 am
Versus75 wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 7:36 am If you transfer “down” to Rice, Bowling Green or The Citadel you expect to get more PT. Doesn’t always work that way.
Jacksonville State finished 13-18/6-12 last season.

Peyton Daniels averaged 6ppg and had more turnovers than assists. He only started 7 games.

Sometimes that is how it works out. Akeem Odusipe is in the portal again and will be lucky if he ends up D-2 or maybe NAIA. When he left VU, he should have transferred to somewhere like North Alabama or Bellarmine... newcomers to D-1 basketball. Not Kent State where they have had a ton of talent for a while. They have had over 20 wins 10 times since 2010.
DeZonie also got less PT at Temple then he got the previous season with us. As bad as BGSU is, it wouldnt' surprise me if Thomas gets less time than he did here this season (though based on how the lineups were shaking out, Thomas would likely have gotten less time here as well). Obinna did ok at St. Joe's - got great but pretty good considering. McBride has been good at Oral Roberts and Dorsey was pretty good at a bad William and Mary team. But even the players who have done ok with their other teams are not stars by any stretch. McBride probably could have helped this past season, but everyone else who had transferred would have been end of the rotation guys at best. Up until Lawrence, the only player we've lost that has been any good is Disu.

the number of players leaving isn't necessarily the problem, as the vast majority of them would not have contributed in any meaningful way. But that does point to a big issue in our player evaluation, as players like Odusipe should not have been offered a scholarship.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by MrMemorial »

The Odusipe original offer list also included:

Auburn
Georgia Tech
Kansas State
Maryland
WVU

While he was obviously a "project" ...his status as a now confirmed bust was anything but obvious.

Unless programs from the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 all wanted to waste a roster spot.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Jason94 »

MrMemorial wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:39 pm The Odusipe original offer list also included:

Auburn
Georgia Tech
Kansas State
Maryland
WVU

While he was obviously a "project" ...his status as a now confirmed bust was anything but obvious.

Unless programs from the ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 all wanted to waste a roster spot.
I'm sure that some of the other players had offers from good schools as well, but there are well over half a dozen players offered in a 4 year period that haven't made it past freshman season at VU playing for a coach who has developed a reputation for developing players. Evaluators made mistakes, but we sure as heck have made a lot more than most teams. I don't know what CJS and staff are doing in evaluating HS players, but clearly something is wrong. Nobody wants to waste a roster spot, but we have Issac McBride, Gary Dorsey, Peyton Daniels, Shane DeZonie, Akeem Odisupe, Noah Shelby and Malik Dia wash out as freshmen in just 3 seasons and the odds of this occurring seems pretty low if it were just bad luck. Generally, if CJS doesn't think you a worthy of PT then you aren't going to find it elsewhere. So why can his staff not figure this out before making an offer? Odisupe is not an isolated case.

If you are going to get 4 or 5 transfers per season in addition to a couple of graduating players, and you are adding 5 freshmen every season, I would think that you would need to have at least 2 work out and look like starters the following season or you either need another approach. Otherwise you will continually have roster issues.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Foreverhopeful »

I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Obvious »

Foreverhopeful wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:02 am I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
C-USA has proven to be a pretty good basketball conference over the years. I don’t think Shelby’s transfer is as bad as some of the other players in the last few years. He is attending a highly rated academic school in a major US city. He’s not in the SEC but still plenty of good competition in his new conference.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by MrMemorial »

Obvious wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:24 am
Foreverhopeful wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:02 am I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
C-USA has proven to be a pretty good basketball conference over the years. I don’t think Shelby’s transfer is as bad as some of the other players in the last few years. He is attending a highly rated academic school in a major US city. He’s not in the SEC but still plenty of good competition in his new conference.
We live in a "microwave" society. Everybody wants everything right now with no waiting.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by mathguy »

Obvious wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:24 am
Foreverhopeful wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:02 am I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
C-USA has proven to be a pretty good basketball conference over the years. I don’t think Shelby’s transfer is as bad as some of the other players in the last few years. He is attending a highly rated academic school in a major US city. He’s not in the SEC but still plenty of good competition in his new conference.
I'm not going to pretend to know what happened with Shelby, but I think it's clear he needed a change of scenery. Whatever the deal was between him and Stack, Shelby literally couldn't get off the bench. He only played 5 non-conference games. He played 7 minutes during our entire win streak.

Was it his defense? Or trouble picking up the system? Or problems with his attitude? Or his relationship with Stack? Or just getting further buried when Lawrence and Manjon started playing better?

I don't know. And I'm going to neither defend Shelby nor attack him. But whatever the situation and whoever's fault it was, it just felt like Shelby was an odd man out and was going to be better somewhere else than he was going to be here.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by commadore »

mathguy wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 10:18 am
Obvious wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:24 am
Foreverhopeful wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:02 am I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
C-USA has proven to be a pretty good basketball conference over the years. I don’t think Shelby’s transfer is as bad as some of the other players in the last few years. He is attending a highly rated academic school in a major US city. He’s not in the SEC but still plenty of good competition in his new conference.
I'm not going to pretend to know what happened with Shelby, but I think it's clear he needed a change of scenery. Whatever the deal was between him and Stack, Shelby literally couldn't get off the bench. He only played 5 non-conference games. He played 7 minutes during our entire win streak.

Was it his defense? Or trouble picking up the system? Or problems with his attitude? Or his relationship with Stack? Or just getting further buried when Lawrence and Manjon started playing better?

I don't know. And I'm going to neither defend Shelby nor attack him. But whatever the situation and whoever's fault it was, it just felt like Shelby was an odd man out and was going to be better somewhere else than he was going to be here.
I will say this: Every time he came into a game, it seems he shot the ball as soon as it was passed to him, whether open or 35 feet from the basket. That won't endure you to the coaching staff.
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Re: Last Year's Starting 5

Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 10:18 am
Obvious wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:24 am
Foreverhopeful wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:02 am I think Noah Shelby is a different case. He had potential and I think his father (he knows the sport) understood that some patience was going to be required, but Noah didn’t want to wait.
C-USA has proven to be a pretty good basketball conference over the years. I don’t think Shelby’s transfer is as bad as some of the other players in the last few years. He is attending a highly rated academic school in a major US city. He’s not in the SEC but still plenty of good competition in his new conference.
I'm not going to pretend to know what happened with Shelby, but I think it's clear he needed a change of scenery. Whatever the deal was between him and Stack, Shelby literally couldn't get off the bench. He only played 5 non-conference games. He played 7 minutes during our entire win streak.

Was it his defense? Or trouble picking up the system? Or problems with his attitude? Or his relationship with Stack? Or just getting further buried when Lawrence and Manjon started playing better?

I don't know. And I'm going to neither defend Shelby nor attack him. But whatever the situation and whoever's fault it was, it just felt like Shelby was an odd man out and was going to be better somewhere else than he was going to be here.
It would be one thing if we had Manjon, Lawrence and say, Chatman and Shelby couldn't get off the bench. It would be understandable since you had a number of good guards. But his not being able to get off the bench in favor of Thomas, I think Shelby definitely was doing what he felt was right, and it is difficult to blame him. Regardless of how Shelby turns out, if CJS didn't think of him as anywhere near as good as Thomas, then he wasn't going to be playing much next season either.
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