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Eight if Lawrence leaves....am I right in my counting? 4 with the 3 incoming freshmen.

I lost count

Don't care any more.

I wouldn’t consider three roster spots designated for freshmen who have signed LOI’s as “openings.”

VU’s roster looks about like many other NCAA teams at this time.

I believe your count is correct. I also agree there is a need for at least 3 of those to be portal upperclassmen. It would be best to get some Grad Transfers that have 2 years eligibility remaining

Lots of transfers in the portal. Lots of schools short handed, i.e. We are not alone in the situation.

But VU is tougher to transfer into, so in that regard it's tougher for us than others.

Hopeful Stack's development of players to get better gives more folks reasons to come here. He's gotten his players he wants to #'s on the court.

Stack got a lot of looks with the screening for Thomas (he wanted to get him looks). But he didn't do it with Shelby when Shelby got the rare minutes to draw a play for him. There are countless other examples where he played young folks but didn't run anything for them. They were kind of on their own. I think that's where he needs to tweak his tough approach, give them a bone every now and then and it's easier to accept tough love.

But Wright, Lawrence, Robbins, Thomas, Manjon, Smith, etc those guys he drew up plays for and honestly got them open opportunities a lot. That's why coaches praise him, he gives them the chance to make a play. But he only gives his favorites a chance to and that needs to change as you "develop" young players.

Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:40 pm Lots of transfers in the portal. Lots of schools short handed, i.e. We are not alone in the situation.

But VU is tougher to transfer into, so in that regard it's tougher for us than others.

Hopeful Stack's development of players to get better gives more folks reasons to come here. He's gotten his players he wants to #'s on the court.

Stack got a lot of looks with the screening for Thomas (he wanted to get him looks). But he didn't do it with Shelby when Shelby got the rare minutes to draw a play for him. There are countless other examples where he played young folks but didn't run anything for them. They were kind of on their own. I think that's where he needs to tweak his tough approach, give them a bone every now and then and it's easier to accept tough love.

But Wright, Lawrence, Robbins, Thomas, Manjon, Smith, etc those guys he drew up plays for and honestly got them open opportunities a lot. That's why coaches praise him, he gives them the chance to make a play. But he only gives his favorites a chance to and that needs to change as you "develop" young players.

Word was that Shelby had trouble learning the schemes. It’s a complicated system. If a player has trouble transitioning into the system, they will struggle to see the floor. I recall in Shelby’s early minutes at the beginning of the season he struggled to hit open looks. And the majority of his looks were wide open. He was solely a catch-and-shoot guy who couldn’t shoot. It’s a little much to say that Stack didn’t play him because he wasn’t one of his “favorites.” Especially considering the fact that Stack is clearly willing to bench starters (e.g., Lawrence, Wright).

UltimateVUFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:08 pm

Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:40 pm Lots of transfers in the portal. Lots of schools short handed, i.e. We are not alone in the situation.

But VU is tougher to transfer into, so in that regard it's tougher for us than others.

Hopeful Stack's development of players to get better gives more folks reasons to come here. He's gotten his players he wants to #'s on the court.

Stack got a lot of looks with the screening for Thomas (he wanted to get him looks). But he didn't do it with Shelby when Shelby got the rare minutes to draw a play for him. There are countless other examples where he played young folks but didn't run anything for them. They were kind of on their own. I think that's where he needs to tweak his tough approach, give them a bone every now and then and it's easier to accept tough love.

But Wright, Lawrence, Robbins, Thomas, Manjon, Smith, etc those guys he drew up plays for and honestly got them open opportunities a lot. That's why coaches praise him, he gives them the chance to make a play. But he only gives his favorites a chance to and that needs to change as you "develop" young players.

Word was that Shelby had trouble learning the schemes. It’s a complicated system. If a player has trouble transitioning into the system, they will struggle to see the floor. I recall in Shelby’s early minutes at the beginning of the season he struggled to hit open looks. And the majority of his looks were wide open. He was solely a catch-and-shoot guy who couldn’t shoot. It’s a little much to say that Stack didn’t play him because he wasn’t one of his “favorites.” Especially considering the fact that Stack is clearly willing to bench starters (e.g., Lawrence, Wright).

Let's be realistic, he was 14-45 from 3. Not ideal but for a young player who feels they have to make the most of their minutes that's not awful. Likely he will improve vs other options on the team who also transferred but with much more upside. If anyone can see he needs to balance his approach, I hope it stack. It can't be tough love all the time to what suits your preference. I will bet that Shelby shoots a higher % than Thomas in Shelby's career. Thomas went from 40% to 34% to 30% 3 point shooting. So Shelby was better shooting in next to no action this year with no plays run for him

Shelby was not a good ball handler nor was he very good at defense. Much as many freshmen. So don't lay it all on Stack cause Shelby didn't get plays drawn up

187187 has an agenda, and for me it is tiresome - one of these days he will understand that Stack is a very good coach and that is why he got SEC coach of the year and the minority coach of the year.

charlestonalum wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:16 am 187187 has an agenda, and for me it is tiresome - one of these days he will understand that Stack is a very good coach and that is why he got SEC coach of the year and the minority coach of the year.

I stopped interacting with them a a long time ago. But I’ll play along, why would stack try to sabotage Shelby’s career? .

Obvious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:19 am

charlestonalum wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:16 am 187187 has an agenda, and for me it is tiresome - one of these days he will understand that Stack is a very good coach and that is why he got SEC coach of the year and the minority coach of the year.

I stopped interacting with them a a long time ago. But I’ll play along, why would stack try to sabotage Shelby’s career? .

I don't think that is the case, but most everything said about Shelby is likewise true of Thomas - neither hit their open threes, neither was very good on defense, neither was a strong ball-handler nor distributor.

Thomas did understand the schemes, but he also took some wild fall away jumpers from three that had zero chance of going in. Because he had such difficulty getting his shot off due to his height and lack of lateral quickness and vertical jump, if he only took good shots he would only be taking a few shots per game. Some games he was able to get up 10 to 12 shots, which was only possible through him putting up a number of bad shots that had very little chance of falling.

It is easy to understand why a 19 year old might think that CJS was playing favorites, even if it wasn't the case. The difference between Thomas and Shelby is not obvious on the surface. Especially to Shelby, who was very highly recruited watching Thomas from the bench, a short, slow teammate who wasn't highly recruited that isn't hitting any of his shots.

It is fair to say that CJS let Thomas get away with a lot without a noticable reduction in playing time. That is part of the reason why I was so surprised that Thomas is transferring. I'll understand if he moves closer to home, but in my mind his production is very replaceable. I'll be very disappointed if we don't end up with a better player overall. There are likewise very few high major or even mid major teams that Thomas could reasonably start for. Not a lot of teams are in the market for a 6' off guard who doesn't hit his shots, cannot break down defenses, distribute, or play great man defense. It isn't so much that Thomas leaving frees up a scholarship as we have enough anyway, but that CJS was likely to give him a lot of minutes. Unless we completely crap out those minutes are likely to go to someone more productive.

Jason94 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:25 am Not a lot of teams are in the market for a 6' off guard who doesn't hit his shots

Come now Jason, you're being too thoughtful with that 6' description. My 13 year old is 5'10". That's what I'm seeing on the court.

buffy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:14 am

Jason94 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:25 am Not a lot of teams are in the market for a 6' off guard who doesn't hit his shots

Come now Jason, you're being too thoughtful with that 6' description. My 13 year old is 5'10". That's what I'm seeing on the court.

Maybe they measured him with shoes on? I will a bit surprised if he ends up anywhere at a high or mid-major level and is allowed to put up double digit shots in a single game. It was really amazing that CJS almost got us to the tournament when I think about who our rotation was for a lot of the season. If he can get that right we will be in great shape.

Obvious wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:19 am

charlestonalum wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:16 am 187187 has an agenda, and for me it is tiresome - one of these days he will understand that Stack is a very good coach and that is why he got SEC coach of the year and the minority coach of the year.

I stopped interacting with them a a long time ago. But I’ll play along, why would stack try to sabotage Shelby’s career? .

I didn't say sabotage. I said that stack finds a way to play his favorites and get them good looks. You don't have to play everyone a lot of minutes. But if you want to be a development program, then you need to play some minutes with purpose when you do. Seemed like our Frosh got what they got when they were out there and it was kind of "do something to prove more minutes" thing. Dort never got a play run for him, Lewis either they made plays just by being out there. But Shelby is a 3pt shooter, you need to run plays for him and get some looks. Did he shoot the ball too much when he was out there? Yes. Bad shots too. But that's because it was free lance out there. I would transfer too with how little he played and who was playing before him every game for the entire season.

I don't have an agenda. I gave Stack his props, even a couple posts above this one I did. But nobody is perfect and he can't lose all his youngsters to play older players that shouldn't have played and transferred out anyway.

Now you are reliant on the portal, and have admitted the portal isn't our strategy or advantage. It's an emergency.

But what a great season we did have and I hope they can keep men's basketball relevant again as it was at the end of this past season.

Lewis missed over a month in the middle of the season- it took some time to get him flowing again but he said that Stack told him to be aggressive and he showed no fear in taking his shot. To me he was a big surprise and looks to be a key member of the team next year. Dort did not seem as active after he came back from his injury. I am hoping it was the main reason for his lack of minutes down the stretch. Stack seems to be a great coach for him and he will get his PT and his shots in the coming years. Unless we pull in another Robbins he will probably be one of the main keys to how successful we are next year. QMB was a foul waiting to happen his first year and he was the opposite this past year. If Dort can take a similar trajectory watch out.

The portal is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you going to get.

I don't know about the playing favorites part. That just doesn't seem like a winning strategy.

Trey could have played over Shelby for a number of reasons: shot selection, attitude, effort, team concept, ability to pick up the system, etc.

UltimateVUFan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 9:08 pm

Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:40 pm Lots of transfers in the portal. Lots of schools short handed, i.e. We are not alone in the situation.

But VU is tougher to transfer into, so in that regard it's tougher for us than others.

Hopeful Stack's development of players to get better gives more folks reasons to come here. He's gotten his players he wants to #'s on the court.

Stack got a lot of looks with the screening for Thomas (he wanted to get him looks). But he didn't do it with Shelby when Shelby got the rare minutes to draw a play for him. There are countless other examples where he played young folks but didn't run anything for them. They were kind of on their own. I think that's where he needs to tweak his tough approach, give them a bone every now and then and it's easier to accept tough love.

But Wright, Lawrence, Robbins, Thomas, Manjon, Smith, etc those guys he drew up plays for and honestly got them open opportunities a lot. That's why coaches praise him, he gives them the chance to make a play. But he only gives his favorites a chance to and that needs to change as you "develop" young players.

Word was that Shelby had trouble learning the schemes. It’s a complicated system. If a player has trouble transitioning into the system, they will struggle to see the floor. I recall in Shelby’s early minutes at the beginning of the season he struggled to hit open looks. And the majority of his looks were wide open. He was solely a catch-and-shoot guy who couldn’t shoot. It’s a little much to say that Stack didn’t play him because he wasn’t one of his “favorites.” Especially considering the fact that Stack is clearly willing to bench starters (e.g., Lawrence, Wright).

Shelby could shoot a lot better than 12 and got about 5% of his time on the court!