Inherited Rosters in 2011, 2014 & 2021

[MikenNashville]

2011:
Jordan Mathews, Zac Stacy Casey Hayward, Wesley Johnson, Andre Hal, Kenny Ladler, Jonathan Krause, Chris Marve, Tim Fugger, et al.
2014:
Adam Butler, Trent Sherfield, Oren Burks, Zach Cunningham, Caleb Azubike, Spencer Pulley, Stephen Weatherly, Andrew Jelks, Ralph Webb, et al. Edited: it was Ralph Webb I was thinking of not Blasingame.
2021:
Nothing to speak of other than maybe Will Sheppard and Chris Pierce, who else would start for another Power 5, let alone an SEC team?

[cc11316]

Interesting comment - I think the inherited rosters reflect well or poorly on the coaches who recruited them. Also, quite a bit of luck. For instance Jordan Matthews was reported to be headed to Auburn as a walk-on had Bobby Johnson not had a scholarship open up when Bradley Roby de-committed.

Rivals recruiting national rankings
2011. 70th. Franklin coached/Caldwell's recruits
2012. 29th. Franklin coached/recruited
2013. 19th. Franklin coached/recruited
2014. 49th. Mason coached/Franklin poached
2015. 47th. Mason coached/recruited
2016. 59th. Mason coached/recruited
2017. 58th. Mason coached/recruited
2018. 42nd. Mason coached/recruited
2019. 49th. Mason coached/recruited
2020. 49th. Mason coached/recruited
2021. 38th. Lea coached/Mason recruited
2022. 38th. Current ranking with 18 commitments averaging 2.89 stars

[MikenNashville]

You do know that “Rivals” gave a 3 star rating to a player that didn’t exist right? My comment was not about recruiting rankings but what happened with the players during and after their Vanderbilt football careers. Many of the ones I mentioned for 2011 and 2014 were all conference or had significant playing time in the NFL. I struggle to see any player on the current team to reach either threshold.

[Johnmn555]

Poached or not, Mason inherited a much better roster than he left Lea with years later. The quoted figures are an indictment of Mason.

[alathIN]

2021:
Nothing to speak of other than maybe Will Sheppard and Chris Pierce, who else would start for another Power 5, let alone an SEC team?

Davieon Davis is a legit P5 player.

A lot of these things hinge on who else is on the D-line. Dayo was a heck of a player who drew a lot of extra blocking help. What you really need is for the opponent to be saying "If we double team Dayo, there's nobody to help block these other two guys, and one of them will beat his man and make a play."
We don't have those other two guys.

I think Davieon plays at 285 and he's our best D-lineman.
If he was at Florida there would be three more D-line starters just as good as he is, and two of them would be 310 and one would be freakishly quick, not just "good quickness for a d-lineman."
The corresponding Georgia player would be 325 and freakishly quick - and he'd be in a rotation with another player just as good as he is, so he would always be fresh and champing at the bit.

I think a lot of our players are like that. I'd feel pretty good about Jaylen Mahoney covering most opponents' #3 receiver. But if he's covering Georgia's best receiver, it's going to get unpretty.

[BILTMORE]

2011:
Jordan Mathews, Zac Stacy Casey Hayward, Wesley Johnson, Andre Hal, Kenny Ladler, Jonathan Krause, Chris Marve, Tim Fugger, et al.
2014:
Adam Butler, Trent Sherfield, Oren Burks, Khari Blasingame, Zach Cunningham, Caleb Azubike, Spencer Pulley, Stephen Weatherly, Andrew Jelks, et al.
2021:
Nothing to speak of other than maybe Will Sheppard and Chris Pierce, who else would start for another Power 5, let alone an SEC team?

Some inaccuracies and distortions-
Jelks never played a down for Mason due to injury - so can't be counted as an "inherited" strength.
Kari Blasingame was a Mason recruit picked up after half the recruiting class was "poached". So not inherited.

Nothing to speak of for 2021? Obviously we're not a healthy, complete roster right now and thus not a good team. But to compare a bunch of cherry picked 2 and 3 star players who ended up panning out as stars or productive later in their careers to a snapshot of a roster 5 games into season 1 of a new coach is not fair to the guys on the current roster or the former coach who recruited them.
I would predict that Owusu, McCallister, Steen, Sheppard, Pierce, Bresnahan will end up in NFL training camps and some will make rosters. They could all start for another power 5 team. SEC? Maybe not, but that's nothing new for Vandy. Over half of James Franklin's starters wouldn't have sniffed another SEC roster. - The story of the current freshmen, RS freshmen and Sophomores is way too early to tell with such a rash comment.

[BILTMORE]

2021:
Nothing to speak of other than maybe Will Sheppard and Chris Pierce, who else would start for another Power 5, let alone an SEC team?

Davieon Davis is a legit P5 player.

A lot of these things hinge on who else is on the D-line. Dayo was a heck of a player who drew a lot of extra blocking help. What you really need is for the opponent to be saying "If we double team Dayo, there's nobody to help block these other two guys, and one of them will beat his man and make a play."
We don't have those other two guys.

I think Davieon plays at 285 and he's our best D-lineman.
If he was at Florida there would be three more D-line starters just as good as he is, and two of them would be 310 and one would be freakishly quick, not just "good quickness for a d-lineman."
The corresponding Georgia player would be 325 and freakishly quick - and he'd be in a rotation with another player just as good as he is, so he would always be fresh and champing at the bit.

I think a lot of our players are like that. I'd feel pretty good about Jaylen Mahoney covering most opponents' #3 receiver. But if he's covering Georgia's best receiver, it's going to get unpretty.

Excellent points. Too many here fail to recognize the collateral benefit that elite, tip-of-the-spear players can provide to their respective platoons. This roster is not COMPLETELY devoid of individual talent the same way that the roster Mason "inherited" wasn't CHOCK FULL of same.

Mason inherited a few great players, but also a weak and torn up roster. Franklin's first class (Mason's rising Juniors and SRS) had been cut in half by attrition and what was left wasn't great. Franklin's second and third classes were skimmed by the rape scandal - five players (including Boyd and 4-star TE) wiped out. Franklin's fourth class was poached in half. As for the rankings, Franklin's highest rated players were more often busts. (Jordan cunningham, Van Der Wol, Lafonte Thorogood, Brian Kimbrow were all 4-stars who seldom played meaningful downs in college football). Z Cunningham and White were the exceptions. I also don't remember Mason inheriting much at the qb position.

[fldore]

What is inarguable is that Mason inherited a program in a much better state than anything Franklin or Lea had. Even if the inherited rosters were identical, Mason should have had a much easier time recruiting better players in his first couple classes and maintaining what was already there. Franklin took over after back to back 2 win seasons. Lea took over after a winless season and three wins in last two years. Mason took over a team that had back to back 9 win seasons, two bowl wins and two top 25 finishes.

[BILTMORE]

What is inarguable is that Mason inherited a program in a much better state than anything Franklin or Lea had. Even if the inherited rosters were identical, Mason should have had a much easier time recruiting better players in his first couple classes and maintaining what was already there. Franklin took over after back to back 2 win seasons. Lea took over after a winless season and three wins in last two years. Mason took over a team that had back to back 9 win seasons, two bowl wins and two top 25 finishes.

Wrong - that's not only inarguable, but as I just laid out for all - the opposite is clearly true.
Mason inherited two transitional classes - the crap one that Franklin left him as his "seniors" and the incoming freshmen class which Franklin ripped in half leaving Mason two weeks after his hiring to try to fix. Mason actually did an admirable job, landing a 4-star dlineman LeaLao, Blasingame and Caleb Scott among other future contributors. Then of course there were the five players in the middle of the roster lost due the rape scandal. That's on top of all the normal attrition that occurs when pet players don't like being told to work harder by their new coach.

Also, can someone please tell me: who were all the quarterbacks that Franklin left Mason? Name all of them then tell me how they panned out here or at their eventual destinations?

I would say that Lea's roster problems are quite similar to what Mason faced. He doesn't have two transitional recruiting classes on his roster, but he does have a team that lost quite a few players due to covid and transfer portal. Of course, his refusal to pursue the portal to fill these holes is a problem of his own making, but it sound like he won't be making that mistake again.

[baseball1234]

Easier to recruit during and after winning seasons. Mason came into a program with momentum. Lea's task is far more difficult.

[MikenNashville]

Talk about distortions, Caleb Scott was a Legacy recruit and the QB room was not devoid at the beginning remember a guy named Patton Robinette? Not all world but serviceable enough to beat the ugly orange - after looking around he saw the writing on the wall and said later. Before you claim I’m just bashing Mason I was on his bandwagon early and thought he was a good hire at the time but he actually wasn’t HC material. Is Clark Lea? I don’t know but he arrived with ZERO (as in 0 wins) positive momentum, a minimal amount of talent and a promise of administration support. We shall see.

[cjdore]

Poached or not, Mason inherited a much better roster than he left Lea with years later. The quoted figures are an indictment of Mason.

A huge part of the reason the Mason was fired was his lack of recruiting SEC talent.

[BILTMORE]

Talk about distortions, Caleb Scott was a Legacy recruit and the QB room was not devoid at the beginning remember a guy named Patton Robinette? Not all world but serviceable enough to beat the ugly orange - after looking around he saw the writing on the wall and said later. Before you claim I’m just bashing Mason I was on his bandwagon early and thought he was a good hire at the time but he actually wasn’t HC material. Is Clark Lea? I don’t know but he arrived with ZERO (as in 0 wins) positive momentum, a minimal amount of talent and a promise of administration support. We shall see.

Lots of wrong here - and more distortions.
Here is the truth:
Patton Robinette, had suffered several concussions before Mason got there (including high school) and then suffered one more to end his career in his lone start other than UT game. He was not able to make it a full game then either. So besides the one sophomore qb who played sparingly as a freshman and suffered from chronic concussions, the qb room was bleak.

Caleb Scott was not in that recruiting class until Mason put him there in the final weeks of the cycle. He was only a legacy "recruit" once Mason made him one.
The the prior season's won/loss record doesn't do much for any coach who had only two weeks to repair a decimated recruiting class, a below average senior class also decimated by attrition, and a knee capped Junior class due to a rape scandal not of his making.

The prior success WOULD have helped Mason recruit if he hadn't been forced to replace 10 guys in just two weeks while he was simultaneously trying to build his staff. Lea didn't have to deal with that. In fact, Lea rubber stamped Mason's class even though he'd been hired well in advance of the early signing day.

You were on board with Mason early - great. Give yourself a cookie.
Now why are you trying to hold him to a double standard and rewriting history in order to make him look worse?

[MikenNashville]

Do you even know what a legacy is? Ever heard of Chuck Scott? I’m done with this before I make a response to your obviously biased agenda that will get me banned.

[alathIN]

Talk about distortions, Caleb Scott was a Legacy recruit and the QB room was not devoid at the beginning remember a guy named Patton Robinette? Not all world but serviceable enough to beat the ugly orange - after looking around he saw the writing on the wall and said later.

Patton had too many concussions and realized that he would need a functioning brain to be a doctor. Last I heard he was in VU med school.
I was a big fan and hated to see him go but he made the right decision - and I don't think Mason can be blamed for that.

I always hoped Mason would succeed because I think he's a great guy - but the program kept hovering just above or just below mediocrity. If you look at his overall record he was far from the worst coach in VU history and accomplished more than most. But I kept saying he needed a breakthrough year to settle any doubts about whether he could build real success. Better than the average VU coach isn't saying much - and "come play for VU football, where we are arguably better than VU's historical suckage" is not an appealing recruiting pitch.

Like it or not, any VU coach has a lot to prove. For about two years you can say it's a new regime and things will be different. But by year three, you have to make it obvious you're on the upswing because by then it's no longer all new. For better or worse Lea is starting form a lower point and if he can win 6 games and go to a bowl in year 3 it will look like an upswing. Mason inherited higher expectations and never could make that case.

[BILTMORE]

Do you even know what a legacy is? Ever heard of Chuck Scott? I’m done with this before I make a response to your obviously biased agenda that will get me banned.

Do you know what a "recruit" is?
Until, Derek Mason arrived, Caleb Scott was not a Vanderbilt recruit, commit or signee. His "legacy" status as the son of Chuck Scott neither ensured that we would offer him a scholarship nor that he would accept if offered. It certainly did not earn him an acceptable offer from James Franklin. Mason recruited Caleb Scott and signed him to a scholarship. No one else. Say it with me. Mason recruited and signed Caleb Scott. That is a fact that you got wrong. Stop trying to cover your blunder with ad hominem attacks on me.

I have no agenda but to speak truth to ignorance. Apparently in this thread, I have my work cut out for me.
What's your agenda? Other than being the guy who's literally wrong about everything. You clearly have one and if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly it should probably be enough to get you banned all on your own regardless of whatever immature things you wish to say to me.

So how 'bout that twice concussed Patton Robinette and RS Freshman Johnny McCrary. It's a wonder Mason didn't win the Super Bowl, Triple Crown, Indy 500, and the FA Cup all at the same time with that stable of healthy thoroughbreds, amarite?

Got any more gems of wisdom or are you stopping after going 0-2?

[Doreknox]

Poached or not, Mason inherited a much better roster than he left Lea with years later. The quoted figures are an indictment of Mason.

Mason also inherited, if I am not mistaken, 21 redshirt freshman from the 19th ranked class in the nation. CDM had more than enough talent to succeed in Franklin's offense and defense had he employed them. But Hardhead wanted to be Stanford South and opted for a pro-set offense and a 3-4 defense. We didn't have the offensive and defensive lines to succeed with those systems and Mason never was able to recruit them. Mason wasted a lot of talent while he was here.

[Commodoredave]

Nevermind what was inherited, Mason's last team (year 7) went 0-9, losing every game by double digits. Further, while Mason's first team of inherited players never bought in to his style, his last team flat out quit on him at the end of the year.

Aside from the roster, Mason was given a culture that had changed coming off back to back 9 win seasons. That culture vanished in the first half vs Temple.

[katmai]

2021:
Nothing to speak of other than maybe Will Sheppard and Chris Pierce, who else would start for another Power 5, let alone an SEC team?

I also don't remember Mason inheriting much at the qb position.

QB is the critical position. When you get solid QB play, like Kyle Shurmur provided for 3 1/2 years (especially the last 2), you can cover up deficiencies in other areas and have a respectable team. The start of Mason's downfall was having no QB to speak of on the 2019 team after Shurmur left, despite being in his 6th year. Then in 2020 he had to rely on a true freshman QB. The talent had dropped off in other areas where you end up with those horrific results.

The key is going to be how well Lea and his staff can recruit, because the talent level, especially along the lines and overall speed, have been way below SEC standards the last couple of seasons. They need to show improvement over the rest of the year, and really do a great selling job to start changing the direction of the program.

Being honest, I think it is apparent that Lea is not in the same coaching category as Franklin, which may not be fair because he might be a Top 10 coach nationally. The only SEC coaches I would take over Franklin are Saban, Smart, and maybe Mullen and Fisher. The hope is that he will be a better game-day coach than Mason, and can do a better job of bringing talent into the program. That remains to be seen.

[fldore]

Not really fair to judge how good the players are that Mason left for Lea. Will need to wait a year or two to see how good some of these young guys turn out. But even then if they play really well is it due to Mason's great recruiting or Lea's coaching. Ralph Webb and Zach Cunningham were redshirt freshman Mason's first year. Vandy's all time rushing leader and guy who turned into a really good if not great NFL linebacker. Was that Franklin recruiting or Mason coaching? Probably some mix.

But what I don't understand is why anyone would die on the hill arguing Mason didn't inherit an overwhelmingly better situation than either Franklin or Lea. Again Franklin came to a school with no history of success back to back 2 wins season. Lea is coming into a train wreck winless season and only 3 wins in two years. Both Franklin and Lea taking over after only one conference win in two seasons. Mason took over a team that had won 9 games in back to back seasons including two bowl wins. Yea Franklin took a number of good prospects with him to Penn St during the transition but it was still a solid recruiting class. And Mason had all spring of 2014 to sell the bowl winning 9 win seasons vandy story. And should have had all Fall of 2014 until he shot himself in the foot after that disastrous season where we had to squeak out wins against UMass and Charleston Southern. It was awful coaching and awful hiring. I railed about Karl Dorrell from the start and his lackluster offensive gameplans became a reality. Still can't get over the fact that freshman Chandler Dorrell had more targets and receptions than freshman Trent Sherfield. Total incompetence. In their defense we didnt know what would happen with Robinette. But he took a step back that second year as the coaches tried forcing their scheme around mismatching talent. That opening night gameplan with him was awful. It was a horrific first season that wiped away almost everything Franklin brought.

Lea's first year probably isn't going to look much different than Mason's. But Lea had nothing to build on. Talent isn't great. Coming off two horrible years. Program has no momentum, no buzz, no nothing. And he is going to have a much harder time recruiting in his first couple recruiting classes than Mason ever did. Mason took over the best situation any Vandy coach has ever walked into and he lit it on fire halfway into September. It's not even remotely close and I don't know why it's even a discussion.