WAY OT: Memphis & Big 12 redux

[FayetteDore]

Yes, way off topic but it's still the Dog Days, so....

I can't help feeling sorry for the U of Memphis and its fans, always trying to get in the big leagues and always failing. I'd have to look at Wikipedia to refresh my memory of how many conferences they've been in already.

Would the XII be any more open to the Tigers this time around, with Texas and OU leaving, but with Colorado returning?

From the Commercial Appeal's Mark Giannotto:
Why Memphis is closer to the Big 12 than ever, but still stuck in purgatory | Giannotto

[AuricGoldfinger]

With the breaking news that the Big Ten is now looking at adding Washington, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford, that would seem to guarantee the other three Pac-12 "Four Corners" schools joining the Big 12 and probably locking out Memphis. Of course, at the rate things are moving, maybe the Big 12 decides to go to 20 schools, too.

[FayetteDore]

With the breaking news that the Big Ten is now looking at adding Washington, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford, that would seem to guarantee the other three Pac-12 "Four Corners" schools joining the Big 12 and probably locking out Memphis. Of course, at the rate things are moving, maybe the Big 12 decides to go to 20 schools, too.

Wow! I totally missed that.
A 20-member conference!?! The old Southern Conference had up to 23 members at one point in the early 1920s, before the teams that later formed the SEC left and others left for the ACC.

[AuricGoldfinger]

With the breaking news that the Big Ten is now looking at adding Washington, Oregon, Cal, and Stanford, that would seem to guarantee the other three Pac-12 "Four Corners" schools joining the Big 12 and probably locking out Memphis. Of course, at the rate things are moving, maybe the Big 12 decides to go to 20 schools, too.

Wow! I totally missed that.
A 20-member conference!?! The old Southern Conference had up to 23 members at one point in the early 1920s, before the teams that later formed the SEC left and others left for the ACC.

Yep. Story broke this afternoon and the Big Ten more or less has confirmed it: https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-big-te ... 34989.html.

[AuricGoldfinger]

Of course, there may now be a future opening for Memphis in the ACC...

[MikenNashville]

I would surmise that Washington and Oregon to the Big 10 is a done deal. Stanford and Cal not so much for now. Personally I don’t want Free Shoes in the SEC because Bowden was too much of a coward when they were invited in 92.

[Junnah]

FSU wanting an unbalanced share of conference revenue surely makes them less attractive, right? Right?
If that goes down it’s lights out for schools with smaller fanbases, especially (if I understand their argument correctly) if those schools have been less competitive in football.

“When the food’s in short supply the table manners disappear.”

[AuricGoldfinger]

FSU wanting an unbalanced share of conference revenue surely makes them less attractive, right? Right?
If that goes down it’s lights out for schools with smaller fanbases, especially (if I understand their argument correctly) if those schools have been less competitive in football.

And this ultimately is the biggest threat to Vanderbilt and other smaller schools that are not consistently competitive in the brave new world of college football. The biggest players will demand an increasingly bigger piece of the pie.

[MrMemorial]

Of course, there may now be a future opening for Memphis in the ACC...

ACC blew off WVU which is in basically a suburb of Pittsburgh but would consider Memphis? Only if their old rivalry with U of L is part of it.

[FayetteDore]

Blake Toppmeyer weighs in with his vision of three 20-team super-conferences, which would add Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina and Pittsburgh to the SEC.

If it HAS to be 20, I'd be okay with it except that I'd replace FSU with Va Tech. But PITT, you say? I think an occasional trip to Pittsburg would be cool. If not Pitt, then UVa or North Carolina State.

[NWOHDore]

With only 4 schools left in the PAC-12, Memphis could very well end up there.

[vandy05]

Three leagues with 20 teams each is going to leave some current Power 5 teams out, and I think that is a reality and we could ultimately be at risk. There are currently 69 Power 5 teams. I've always thought that four conferences of 16 teams makes sense. Oddly enough I always thought it would be the Pac-12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC that survived, but now its Big XII instead of Pac-12. No loyalty from the west coast hippies

But whether there are three conferences with 20 or four conferences with 16, someone is getting left out of the dance. Whoever is bringing the most money to the pot is going to take the day, that much is almost certain. I thought the article below was interesting, its basically an overall desirability rating. We make the top 64 but not the top 60. That tracks with me. Something else to remember is that the 69 includes Notre Dame. They don't have to join a conference (at least they don't think so).

https://www.si.com/college/2022/07/14/p ... ig-ten-acc

[Go Vandy!]

What SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED was 20-30 (40?) years ago, the best 64 should have separated FB from the NCAA. As you said, 05, 4 "conferences" of 16 teams each would be a season-long defacto playoff. But it's too late now, baby, now ... And you have swim teams (and 20 more already money-losing) sports flying cross-country to play teams with no logical rivalry involved.

And that would have allowed a "Magnolia" league. (Where is Magnolia when you need him/her/it (could be AI by now)?

[AuricGoldfinger]

What SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED was 20-30 (40?) years ago, the best 64 should have separated FB from the NCAA. As you said, 05, 4 "conferences" of 16 teams each would be a season-long defacto playoff. But it's too late now, baby, now ... And you have swim teams (and 20 more already money-losing) sports flying cross-country to play teams with no logical rivalry involved.

Sport-specific regional conferences should have happened before all of this recent insanity. It's going to be a massive burden--financially, physically, and mentally--for these teams to fly commercial across the country on a regular basis. I hope these leagues do all they can to minimize those burdens.

[AuricGoldfinger]

Three leagues with 20 teams each is going to leave some current Power 5 teams out, and I think that is a reality and we could ultimately be at risk. There are currently 69 Power 5 teams. I've always thought that four conferences of 16 teams makes sense. Oddly enough I always thought it would be the Pac-12, SEC, Big 10 and ACC that survived, but now its Big XII instead of Pac-12. No loyalty from the west coast hippies

But whether there are three conferences with 20 or four conferences with 16, someone is getting left out of the dance. Whoever is bringing the most money to the pot is going to take the day, that much is almost certain. I thought the article below was interesting, its basically an overall desirability rating. We make the top 64 but not the top 60. That tracks with me. Something else to remember is that the 69 includes Notre Dame. They don't have to join a conference (at least they don't think so).

https://www.si.com/college/2022/07/14/p ... ig-ten-acc

My two biggest fears about Vanderbilt's place in this new world order are:

1. Demands for unequal revenue sharing similar to what Florida State is demanding. What happens when there are no more conferences to realign? If the television rights firehose slows down? Then we'll see more Florida States demanding revenue shares based upon on-field success, ratings, desirability, etc.

2. When television executives go to the conference offices and say, "Hey, we love working with you. But we really want to beef up our slate of games and get rid of the dead ratings weight on the Saturday schedule. Plus, we've got 10 games every Saturday we have to show, and not enough time slots. So we're moving all Vanderbilt/Rutgers/Duke/etc. games to streaming and will pay you less for those games."

I don't expect either of those to happen in the near future. But the biggest threat to Vanderbilt is not getting kicked out of the SEC. It's having its revenue stream strangled while remaining a league member.

The most interesting part of yesterday's events was that Stanford--in spite of its academic rigor, rich alumni base, and massive overall athletic success--was cast aside like a bad gift on Christmas morning and left without a chair when the music stopped. None of that mattered. Yes, you can argue that Stanford's leadership should have done more to better position themselves when the music started playing, but by the end of the day Stanford's immediate athletic future was much bleaker than it was before the sun rose that morning.

[MikenNashville]

With the PAC 12 ceasing to exist I wonder how those bowl games tied to that conference adapt? Of course the Rose Bowl will be fine but the pac also had tie-ins with a bunch of lower tier bowls.

[mathguy]

FSU wanting an unbalanced share of conference revenue surely makes them less attractive, right? Right?

I don't know all the details, but some of this is likely negotiable. In football, I feel like the ACC has Florida State, Clemson, maybe Miami and largely a bunch of crap. Correspondingly, I don't think the ACC has the same supply of revenue that the Big 10 or SEC have.

It's conceivable that FSU wants a larger share of *ACC* revenue, but would be willing to be in a normal share in, say, the SEC or Big10.

Of course for a team that hasn't finished in the top 10 in 8 years and for whom the vast bulk of their football success has come under 1 coach, I honestly think they clearly have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the pecking order.

[dore74]

Wow, a ton of moving pieces::
The Stanford experience I’m sure has gotten the attention of the administration. VU football doesn’t get great ratings I’m sure.
What if FSU athletics actually enters into the PE agreement—would it be a taxable operation at that point?
Suspect the ACC agreement get the votes needed to void it at some point in the next few years—especially if there are 8 remaining landing spots.
What is a 20 team college conference anyway?
ESPN and other sports networks aren’t minting money, do conferences ultimately have graduated pay scales as a result?

From an overall college experience for the students, what should VU change or maintain in this fast changing environment. I hope the school leadership will take a deep dive here, there’s a ton to consider. This is almost as much fun as a head coaching search.

[OldDude]

FSU wanting an unbalanced share of conference revenue surely makes them less attractive, right? Right?

I don't know all the details, but some of this is likely negotiable. In football, I feel like the ACC has Florida State, Clemson, maybe Miami and largely a bunch of crap. Correspondingly, I don't think the ACC has the same supply of revenue that the Big 10 or SEC have.

It's conceivable that FSU wants a larger share of *ACC* revenue, but would be willing to be in a normal share in, say, the SEC or Big10.

Of course for a team that hasn't finished in the top 10 in 8 years and for whom the vast bulk of their football success has come under 1 coach, I honestly think they clearly have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the pecking order.

FSU stadium has a 79,500 capacity and last year's average attendance would have put them 10th in the SEC. Seems to me they would need the SEC more than the SEC needs them.

[mathguy]

What is a 20 team college conference anyway?

It's called "AAA".