Stackhouse

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

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Ndorefin
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Re: Nobody mentioned Bob Polk ...

Post by Ndorefin »

Versus75 wrote: Mon Jun 05, 2023 2:00 pm ... the former Georgia Tech assistant coach who brought the team from the era of second-rate sport (only played 15 games in 1947-48 season).

Of Polk's 13 seasons, 7 teams would likely have made the NCAAT under the current format. Roy Skinner teams would have likely been selected 8 or 9 times in his 16 seasons. It's important to note that Skinner did not inherit a bad team. He filled in for an ill Bob Polk during the 1958-59 season. Polk's next two teams went 14-9 and 19-5 (tied for second in the SEC) before he retired (for the time) because of a heart ailment and Skinner took over permanently.
Ndorefin wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:06 pm Based on results on the courts, there is no question Skinner is #1. Using that criteria, I would have to say Bob Polk (who preceded Skinner), was #2.
Sorry, Versus75…..beat you to the punch. He got the party started1


commadore
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by commadore »

MemorialMagic wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:41 pm If you had to pick a coach off this list to coach one game for your life. Who would you pick?
Skinner!
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Vandy187187
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by Vandy187187 »

It's laughable that anyone would put Stack in the top 10. We haven't reached the NCAA yet. I love Stack's intensity competitiveness etc. Admitting he has a learning curve and all, defend everything. But results matter and we need results in terms of NCAA and winning some games. More than enough time has gone by at this point.
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Vandy187187 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:41 pm It's laughable that anyone would put Stack in the top 10. We haven't reached the NCAA yet. I love Stack's intensity competitiveness etc. Admitting he has a learning curve and all, defend everything. But results matter and we need results in terms of NCAA and winning some games. More than enough time has gone by at this point.
*Yawn*
You still here pushing the same sad agenda?
Come back at the end of next season, perhaps.
Or, if you want to hang around, answer this honest question: how many times have VU coaches been named SEC COY???

Edit: I’ll give you a hint; fewer than ten VU coaches have earned that honor.

Also, and sadly, you have to go back over a decade to Stallings’ 2012 SECT championship team to find the last time VU finished better than tied for 4th in the league standings. Stack inherited a team that had finished 13th and 14th in the previous two seasons and was tasked with righting a sinking ship. He’s doing fine, sir.
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by LawoftheWest »

I have followed this thread and the comments others have made. So there is no misconception in my view Stack is a very good coach. Yet, I do not lay out my criteria. I believe that any attempt at ranking coaches is futile.

Unless I have missed it, I have not seen anyone define the criteria for ranking our basketball coaches. It is like comparing apples to grapefruit, in my view. I believe there are many variables to adequately rank coaches. These include, among many others: 1. Strength of schedule; 2. Admissions restrictions; 3. Competition in the SEC; 4. Impact of the increase in Black (or African/American, if you will) players. Win/loss records alone are insufficient to determine how good an individual is as a coach. Is it player development? Recruiting prowess? X's and O's? Player retention?

Over the years schools in the SEC have increased resources on basketball. How do you compare Vandy coaches over time when there has been a huge increase in emphasis in basketball at other schools during the past 30 or 40 years?

Coaching involves many components. Recruiting is imperative. That is difficult at Vandy with our admission requirements. Those admission requirements may fluctuate over time.

So, I don't see how posters can realistically rank coaches without stating their criteria. An example: The coach prior to Stack appears to have been good in recruiting. However, was clueless on running a program at Vandy. But was he? He was successful before Vandy and appears to do well in his current coaching position.

Just some rambling thoughts to ponder.

Oh, as an example, the constant negative posts from Vandy187187 contain no substance, in my view. He/she never lets us know why he/she hates Stack so much.
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mathguy
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by mathguy »

Vandy187187 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:41 pm It's laughable that anyone would put Stack in the top 10. We haven't reached the NCAA yet. I love Stack's intensity competitiveness etc. Admitting he has a learning curve and all, defend everything. But results matter and we need results in terms of NCAA and winning some games. More than enough time has gone by at this point.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sc ... aches.html

Well, considering that Stack is already 8th in program history in wins, and we've really only had 10 coaches since the end of WW2, I kind of think it's laughable that anyone *wouldn't* put Stack in the top 10 ... I mean, unless you're unusually impressed at the way Ed Hamilton had a career .773 winning percentage by going 17-5 over 2 non-consecutive seasons in 1904 and 1909. Yeah, my great grandpappy still talks about the way we went 6-1 in 1904... :roll:
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:58 am
Vandy187187 wrote: Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:41 pm It's laughable that anyone would put Stack in the top 10. We haven't reached the NCAA yet. I love Stack's intensity competitiveness etc. Admitting he has a learning curve and all, defend everything. But results matter and we need results in terms of NCAA and winning some games. More than enough time has gone by at this point.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/sc ... aches.html

Well, considering that Stack is already 8th in program history in wins, and we've really only had 10 coaches since the end of WW2, I kind of think it's laughable that anyone *wouldn't* put Stack in the top 10 ... I mean, unless you're unusually impressed at the way Ed Hamilton had a career .773 winning percentage by going 17-5 over 2 non-consecutive seasons in 1904 and 1909. Yeah, my great grandpappy still talks about the way we went 6-1 in 1904... :roll:
This would seem to be axiomatic, given that we've had a few coaches who've had rather long tenures and that since it is only one school, we just haven't had that many coaches. The total according to sports reference is 28, including over half of whom who coached 3 seasons or fewer. That leaves only 11 coaches who have coached 4 or more seasons. JVBK is tied for the 6th longest tenure in all of VUMBB history.

I looked at this in depth a number of years ago and looked only at the era which included the expanded tournament, but our overall history isn't that great, which means that CJS could easily rocket up the list. Simply sticking around 4 seasons gets him near the top 10, regardless of what has actually been accomplished.
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by Jason94 »

LawoftheWest wrote: Wed Jun 07, 2023 1:43 am I have followed this thread and the comments others have made. So there is no misconception in my view Stack is a very good coach. Yet, I do not lay out my criteria. I believe that any attempt at ranking coaches is futile.

Unless I have missed it, I have not seen anyone define the criteria for ranking our basketball coaches. It is like comparing apples to grapefruit, in my view. I believe there are many variables to adequately rank coaches. These include, among many others: 1. Strength of schedule; 2. Admissions restrictions; 3. Competition in the SEC; 4. Impact of the increase in Black (or African/American, if you will) players. Win/loss records alone are insufficient to determine how good an individual is as a coach. Is it player development? Recruiting prowess? X's and O's? Player retention?

Over the years schools in the SEC have increased resources on basketball. How do you compare Vandy coaches over time when there has been a huge increase in emphasis in basketball at other schools during the past 30 or 40 years?

Coaching involves many components. Recruiting is imperative. That is difficult at Vandy with our admission requirements. Those admission requirements may fluctuate over time.

So, I don't see how posters can realistically rank coaches without stating their criteria. An example: The coach prior to Stack appears to have been good in recruiting. However, was clueless on running a program at Vandy. But was he? He was successful before Vandy and appears to do well in his current coaching position.

Just some rambling thoughts to ponder.

Oh, as an example, the constant negative posts from Vandy187187 contain no substance, in my view. He/she never lets us know why he/she hates Stack so much.
The only thing I think you can do is note how a coach did relative to the rest of the schools in the NCAA at the time. A simply proxy for that is making the tournament. Skinner wasn't responsible for any sort of boycott of AA players, but did help integrate the game in the SEC for sure. But the rest of the schools played in a similar environment and he did quite well overall against them. We cannot correct for there being a smaller population, or a lack of international players etc. I think that criteria is the only fair way to judge. otherwise if you try to factor in all the things you bring up you end up with a mess and no way to objectively weigh any one factor against another. How many wins is the admission requirements worth now vs. 20 years ago? Impossible to answer. But since the HC is in charge of the overall program from hiring, recruiting, developing, game management, etc, it is fair to look at the overall record and more importantly, did their team make the tournament, as it is something that does somewhat account for the relative strength of schedule (however imperfectly).
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by MrMemorial »

Skinner was a pioneer of integrating sports in the South.

Ironically, a coach at Miss. St. of all places stuck his neck out when it was quite a risk to do so...

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/spor ... 844222007/
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Re: Stackhouse

Post by MemorialMagic »

Love the conversation. Let's keep this forum active. A return to the good ole days!!!
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