MemorialMagic wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:56 pm
charlestonalum wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:05 pm
OK
I'll go first in ranking our top 5 coaches:
1. Skinner
2. Fogler
3. Stackhouse
4. Newton
5. Stallings
Anyone else have an opinion?
Okay I'll play:
1. Fogler - he gets the nod over Skinner because I saw him, and he's here because we won a lot of games simply because he was the coach. Games that we had no business winning with the talent we had. And I don't know that I've ever seen a team systematically destroy teams with such precision as that 92-93 team. The most intelligent coach I've ever seen. (Plus, he gave me a free pair of basketball shoes)
2. Skinner - I never saw him coach, but I take everyone's word for it
3, Newton - He gets the nod here because a) he was such a nice guy and b) he (along with Pitino) was one of the first to recognize that the 3 point shot was a true game changer, and immediately adapt his coaching to taking advantage of it. I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for his coaching acumen. His teams at Alabama were dominant, and when he came here, the program was at a real low point. Not Bryce Drew low, but low. And he managed to engineer our rise to be within a tennis ball technical of winning the SEC his final year. (Gosh as I write this, I really do think he is massively undervalued as a coach)
4. Stackhouse - Stallings's results ended up being better for now, but I think Stack will get there, and really the results aren't in the same time frame aren't massively different. Plus Stack came into a program that had been systematically destroyed by the previous coach and has been building that back. Plus he's had to deal with the transfer portal and NIL. Stack is stern, but he's not nearly as big of a jerk as Stallings is.
5. Stallings - A solid coach. Some very good results, and I think really established a firm foundation for the program in general. His teams with the worst talent over performed, but his teams with the most talent underperformed. And he was a massive jerk. I knew him pretty well, and he has some serious personality issues. Ultimately he was self-aware enough to hire a top assistant that could complement that. Tim Jankovich and Tom Richardson are some of the nices people you will ever meet.
While I love CEF because I was on campus during his tenure, it is impossible to have his 4 seasons ahead of some of the other coaches on the list. Having him ahead of Skinner is pretty absurd even if Skinner largely coached before I was born. Just because I didn't witness it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He had 1 great season which I will never forget, but he also had the benefit of taking over from a coach who left the program in great shape, which isn't true for anyone else on the list.
Skinner was at VU for 16 seasons, made two tournament appearances (which were equivalent to sweet 16 or better) and would have made the touranment at least 6 or 7 more times had the format been what it is today. He also brought in the first AA player in SEC history. I don't have to have had been aware of Skinner at the time to know that he was the #1 coach in VU history and it not be particularly close.
Newton did some really good things at the end of his tenure, but it would be absurdly easy for CJS to be ahead of Newton through 5 seasons just by making the tournament this season (and one could argue that CJS is ahead of Newton through year 4). Newton's record in year 5 was 13-15 (7-11). Regardless of how bad Schmidt was, he couldn't have been so bad to be keeping coach Newton from having a winning record in year 5. We didn't make the tournament under Newton until year 7 and his best overall record was 20-11 in the sweet 16 season. He had memorable games but no great seasons.
I'd say that you are massively underrating CKS based upon his being an ass. Regardless of whether his teams "underperformed" (which based upon his players sticking in the NBA is debatable), you cannot simply wave away making the tournament 5 of 6 seasons, multiple sweet 16's, a SEC championship, and multiple wins against #1 teams. Objectively, CKS is clearly #2 on this list by a pretty wide margin. CJS has a ways to go to catch him, much less pass him. It is possible, but I would guess it is more likely that CJS doesn't stick around long enough if his trajectory were to become one that would pass CKS.
Stackhouse has a lot of promise and potential, but to this point it has been just that. He flat out needs to make the tournament next season based on the talent on this roster. I think he will do so, but essentially, CJS hasn't done anything yet to be considered anywhere but the bottom of this list. He is well ahead of a coach like VBK, but VBK did make the tournament and the NIT three times in 6 seasons.
So my list would be (based on results on the court)
Skinner
Stallings
Fogler
Newton
Stackhouse.
The last three are pretty close because the tenures were so short overall, and CJS could pass Newton very easily in two seasons. Similarly with a single great season he could pass Fogler.