Rhetorical and hypothetical only

[MrMemorial]

We've done pretty good with Scott Brown as pitching coach. That part is not hypothetical.

This part is rhetorical:
Is Rocker better now than he was two years ago when he no-hit Duke?

This is the "just asking" part:
Does any other ranked team throw as many pitches in the dirt?

Here is another:
What pitcher (other than maybe Mason Hickman) has performed to exceeding his talent level recently?**

**Maldonado missed his last high school season, so we don't really know what he was going to be on arrival.

[docdore]

while i admittedly don't understand the nuances of baseball, i have wondered for many weeks how/why it is that a pitcher of rocker's great ability and skill throws so many "dirt balls". explain please....

[Dorewithaflare]

When a pitcher comes out and strikes out the 1 2 and 3 batters in the line-up and then can hardly get another batter out from then on he is some kind of head case.

[charlestonalum]

Rocker is human not a robot. In short he is just like the rest of us except he has a lot more talent than most when it comes to pitching. He had a bad day yesterday but he has had many better days and whatever caused the problems I am confident he will recover. The Arkansas starter also had a bad day because he too is human.

[commadore]

Rocker, like Leiter, is most likely suffering some from fatigue. He has thrown a ton of pitches this year. I was glad to see him come out early last night so that maybe he will be ready next week. Wish we could score 10 early today so Leiter could come out.

[geeznotagain]

Rocker is human not a robot. In short he is just like the rest of us except he has a lot more talent than most when it comes to pitching. He had a bad day yesterday but he has had many better days and whatever caused the problems I am confident he will recover. The Arkansas starter also had a bad day because he too is human.

Mr. Kopps, unfortunately, does not appear to be human.

[charlestonalum]

Rocker is human not a robot. In short he is just like the rest of us except he has a lot more talent than most when it comes to pitching. He had a bad day yesterday but he has had many better days and whatever caused the problems I am confident he will recover. The Arkansas starter also had a bad day because he too is human.

Mr. Kopps, unfortunately, does not appear to be human.

But he is.

[docdore]

while i admittedly don't understand the nuances of baseball, i have wondered for many weeks how/why it is that a pitcher of rocker's great ability and skill throws so many "dirt balls". explain please....

my enquiry had little or nothing to do with rocker’s off day last night. all the “dirt balls”, even on the many days when he is sharp, still puzzle me. explain please...

[commadore]

Mario Rivera threw tons of dirt balls. It is the nature of a wicked slider. Didn't seem to hurt his career much.
Not sure what happened to the rest of this post. I went on to say that the slider looks like a fast ball coming in. Then at the last second it breaks down and away to a right handed batter (from a right hand pitcher). If thrown over the middle of the plate, about three inches above the knee, it will break down and outside before it gets to the pitcher. If thrown knee high it will most likely be in the dirt. That is why we have so many dirt balls and also why so many swing and misses by other players

[geeznotagain]

while i admittedly don't understand the nuances of baseball, i have wondered for many weeks how/why it is that a pitcher of rocker's great ability and skill throws so many "dirt balls". explain please....

my enquiry had little or nothing to do with rocker’s off day last night. all the “dirt balls”, even on the many days when he is sharp, still puzzle me. explain please...

Using a Vandy example, think of Hayden Stone, Vandy relief pitcher from a few year's back. He had an extremely high percentage of pitches that were "dirt balls". He had one of the best sliders in the collegiate ranks I have seen. And early on he was very effective. But then he was injured, and when he came back, not nearly as effective and had far less control.

Anyway, speaking in generalities, I suspect pitchers who throw a lot of sliders throw a lot of them in the dirt. Is that true of Rocker, even when he's "on"? I couldn't say, even though I've watched him pitch a bunch of games now. Thinking back to his signature game, the no-hitter against Duke in post season -- I don't remember a lot of balls in the dirt in that game. Do you? But I don't guarantee that my memory is super-accurate.

[MrMemorial]

According to ESPN's box score he had 19 K's to 2 walks & hit one batter.

No "wild pitches" or passed balls are listed. Of 131 pitches, 89 were strikes.

[docdore]

while i admittedly don't understand the nuances of baseball, i have wondered for many weeks how/why it is that a pitcher of rocker's great ability and skill throws so many "dirt balls". explain please....

my enquiry had little or nothing to do with rocker’s off day last night. all the “dirt balls”, even on the many days when he is sharp, still puzzle me. explain please...

Using a Vandy example, think of Hayden Stone, Vandy relief pitcher from a few year's back. He had an extremely high percentage of pitches that were "dirt balls". He had one of the best sliders in the collegiate ranks I have seen. And early on he was very effective. But then he was injured, and when he came back, not nearly as effective and had far less control.

Anyway, speaking in generalities, I suspect pitchers who throw a lot of sliders throw a lot of them in the dirt. Is that true of Rocker, even when he's "on"? I couldn't say, even though I've watched him pitch a bunch of games now. Thinking back to his signature game, the no-hitter against Duke in post season -- I don't remember a lot of balls in the dirt in that game. Do you? But I don't guarantee that my memory is super-accurate.

thank you, comma and geez, for your explanations.

[Versus75]

According to ESPN's box score he had 19 K's to 2 walks & hit one batter.

No "wild pitches" or passed balls are listed. Of 131 pitches, 89 were strikes.

You're missing something.

This is the box score from vucommodores.com. It doesn't have a play-by-play, but you can see putouts and assists listed.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http ... Duke_0.pdf

Philip Clarke had 13 putouts and 6 assists on 19 strikeouts. The assists are on dropped third strikes, many of which were balls in the fake dirt. And there may have been a couple dropped third strikes on which Clarke tagged out the batter.

I believe all 19 punchouts were swinging strikes on breaking balls.


BTW: The only way a Wild Pitch or Passed Ball would be recorded is if a runner (even the batter/runner) advanced a base due to the errant throw or catch. With nobody on base (only the first batter in the game reached) and less than two strikes, Rocker could throw the ball to the press box and it would not be considered "wild."

And the "89 strikes" doesn't mean 89 of 131 pitches were in the strike zone. Pitches swung at, no matter how far out of the strike zone, are considered "strikes" for that stat. It is misleading.

[DivergentDore]

A book could be written on the nuances of the slider and everything that affects it in a game if someone were to take time to write it. The same could be said for the affect collegiate and minor league pitching coaches have on future prospects so I'll try and keep this short.

Pitching coaches such as Brownie get prospects with wide repertoires of available pitches, good command of those pitches, and generally decent mechanics. What we can't see on tv (or from the stands) is the slight differences in arm angles or elevated vs lowered grips by most pitchers entering college or the minors. Pitching coaches such as Brownie have to help these pitchers find their best overall pitch, develop a second variant of the pitch, develop differing speeds on both variants, and throw all the variants using the same body angle and arm slot; while simultaneously breaking down the pitchers mechanics on all other pitches and rebuilding them so they also come from the same motion, etc. Hitters at the D1 NCAA level will chew up a pitcher with 3 great pitches but different motions, grips, etc. MLB batters will send that pitcher back to the minors with a double digit ERA. Brownie does a great job in this along with adding additional supplemental pitches to make them more pro ready.

Now for Rockers slider specifically and what happened in the tourney game. Both pitchers in that game got bit by a low strike zone. The umpire in game 2 had a very good zone and stayed consistent from black to black whether right or lefty and was also consistent from bottom of belt to bottom of knee. That was his zone and he didn't allow the pitchers to stretch it. Rocker and Wicklander both have their "ace" and "deuce" pitches that need a higher zone. For Rocker it's the top down slider and high heat while Wicklander uses a high "skipper" along with a sharp breaker dropping in from above.

People who follow MLB can think of it this way in regards to the effects a particular umpires strike zone can have on certain pitchers: Tom Glavine was dang near unhittable with a low zone and full black while John Smoltz usually had higher pitch counts in shorter outings; it was the exact opposite with taller but skinnier zones.