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Tough Job

For fan discussion of the Vanderbilt Commodore baseball program.

Moderators: NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit, kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold

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charlestonalum
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Tough Job

Post by charlestonalum » Sun May 16, 2021 6:02 pm

Corbin has 2 promising freshman picthers and it is late in the season and you got to find your pitching staff for postseason. So you pitch Reilly and Owen against the best hitting team in the conference in their place and they ring up 10 in the third inning. Experiment concluded: not what we hoped for but I guess we all learned something. Coaching is a tough job.
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Levon
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Re: Tough Job

Post by Levon » Sun May 16, 2021 6:41 pm

I get that and truly appreciate how Corbs has always played for May-June, but if that's the case, then sometimes (today) coaches can just flat out overthink things. Reilly has had one terrific game, last week vs Alabama. He's had 4-5 good 2-2+ innings outings, and he had the one disastrous start where he managed to get one out. Except for Alabama, he's struggled every time he has given up a couple hits or walks by his 3rd inning.
By mid-May you gotta know he's not ready to be depended on for more than 2 good innings; you gotta have the pen starting to stretch at the start of his 3rd inning. And following the logic of getting freshmen ready, then why bring Maldonado in with an 8-run deficit? Go to the other youngsters to bolster (or wreck) their confidence. Today's drubbing is largely on Corbs. Not a time of the season or a venue to play Sigmund Freud.
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baseball1234
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Re: Tough Job

Post by baseball1234 » Sun May 16, 2021 8:38 pm

1. Maldonado needed the work. 2. The game was not over after three innings. 3. Corbs did not throw any pitches. 4. Better to try Owen in the third than have to use him late in the game. 5. If he were trying to play Freud, he would have put the youngsters in instead of Maldonado and Murphy.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by Commodoredave » Sun May 16, 2021 9:17 pm

By the time Maldanado came in, we were down 3 and he was ready to go.

I agree with the whole premise of the thread. Corbs gives guys time to work out of jams during the regular season with and eye on preparation. The reality of today is that we do not have the depth or reliable pitching to go all the way. We have the talent, but the odds that the best of Reilly, Little, Fisher, McIlvain, et al show up is really low. Behind the two elite guys and Maldanado, we simply don't have dependable arms, and it has to be driving Corbs crazy at this point.

Plains in June? Perhaps. Mountaintop in 2021- not in the cards.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by Levon » Sun May 16, 2021 9:39 pm

baseball1234 wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 8:38 pm
1. Maldonado needed the work. 2. The game was not over after three innings. 3. Corbs did not throw any pitches. 4. Better to try Owen in the third than have to use him late in the game. 5. If he were trying to play Freud, he would have put the youngsters in instead of Maldonado and Murphy.
I get what you're saying and don't disagree; my response was to the idea in the OP, and that's what the Freud reference was directed to. Still, if Corbs is going to expect Reilly to throw multiple quality innings, the history doesn't back it up. I was okay with Owen entering in the 3rd, he just should have been ready sooner because repeat performance shows Reilly tends to self-destruct in his 3rd inning, as he did today. True, Corbs didn't throw a pitch, but he let Reilly throw too many.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by charlestonalum » Mon May 17, 2021 6:00 am

Commodoredave wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 9:17 pm
By the time Maldanado came in, we were down 3 and he was ready to go.

I agree with the whole premise of the thread. Corbs gives guys time to work out of jams during the regular season with and eye on preparation. The reality of today is that we do not have the depth or reliable pitching to go all the way. We have the talent, but the odds that the best of Reilly, Little, Fisher, McIlvain, et al show up is really low. Behind the two elite guys and Maldanado, we simply don't have dependable arms, and it has to be driving Corbs crazy at this point.

Plains in June? Perhaps. Mountaintop in 2021- not in the cards.
This the experimental conclusion: we do not have a deep, dependable pitching staff. It is now perfectly clear So how do you compensate? Make sure you have an offensive lineup, keep critical defensive players in right position, and be ready in the pen to replace whoever is showing early signs of not having "it" that day. if we go far in post season it will be because Corbin changed his typical approach and figured out the mysteries of this particular team. I'm pulling for him and all the boys.
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baseball1234
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Re: Tough Job

Post by baseball1234 » Mon May 17, 2021 7:13 am

Any word on Ethan Smith?
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Re: Tough Job

Post by roanoke » Mon May 17, 2021 7:30 am

I disagree with several premises - on several levels. But I agree with the general mood of the thread.

First, we have a great pitching staff - imperfect, yes. But not with a bad staff ERA. It is easy to complain after a road series with the best hitting team in the league. But the truth is - this was not a good day for the coaching staff in making decisions - and I think Brown knew it and was so frustrated he got ejected.

It is easy to see a drop-off after Rocker-Leiter - but there are some really good arms out there. I'd put Maldonado, Murphy and Fisher up there with about anyone. So that's five great pitchers right now. Reilly, McIlvane, Little and Berkwich can be great on the right day. Schultz is not bad either. If Ethan Smith comes back - he is very good. Owen also can be good - but yesterday may damage his psyche rather than help it. We have more than enough pitching to win in Omaha - but we do have to manage it wisely.

Yesterday - and several said it on the game thread - Reilly was iffy early. We had no one up in the pen. It was too late before we even had Owen warming - and only Owen. Several of us said we could lose the game right then if we weren't careful - and we did. We weren't careful - we should have had two guys up early - taken Reilly out earlier and Owen out earlier. And most importantly, we should have had options ready.

I do not mind - and understand - Coach likes to see his pitchers grit through adversity. It does make them better if they can do it. But, as Levon points out, yesterday we were totally unprepared for a foreseeable event. Being unprepared - not having arms ready on the road on a Sunday where we have lots of guys who need work - makes no sense. It was a mistake.

Do I think we have the best coach in America? Yes. Am I grateful to him for making us a premier program everyone respects - yes, immeasurably. But yesterday was a bad outing. The ump was in Reilly's head, Owen was put in a very difficult situation. That was a 10-spot that just shouldn't have happened.

But don't doubt this team - the SEC is brutal - and it is particularly brutal on the road. Arkansas is the only team I have seen that is consistently a bit better than us - and their pitching is not five-star. So hang in there. We will learn from our mistakes - we did take some positives from this week-end. Leiter seemed more than ok and we found a few bats, and also sent a subtle message at crunch time - perform or sit. Because that's how deep we are.
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Aces and Spaces

Post by PeteFox » Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 am

In the game of bridge, you can evaluate your hand by the point count before bidding starts. Aces =4, Kings =3,
queens =2 and jacks=1, for a total of 40 points in a deal, distributed amonsgst the players. There are nuances, but you get the drift.
Our baseball team is like the dreaded hand in bridge known as "Aces and Spaces". You have all 4 aces (16 points, 40% of the firepower in the deck) but nothing else above a 10. Pretty much a non-starter unless you get some significant help from you partner.
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My 2 cents

Post by geeznotagain » Mon May 17, 2021 8:12 am

I would like to offer my (unsolicited) opinion on yesterday’s game against the Rebels/Bears. Specifically I would like to disagree with those who have posted that the loss was largely attributable to Corbin and/or Brown’s mismanagement of the pitching staff, and with those who state that there were “lessons learned” here, which infers that we can somehow do things differently in the future and things will be swell. Once Reilly didn’t have it, what was Corbs to do? We have two ace starting pitchers and 2 often dependable relievers (Maldonado who is almost always very good, and Murphy is usually good, but has his moments). But those 2 guys are short-term, late inning guys. So is Fisher, who shows up about as often as Haley’s Comet. Beyond that, the bullpen is inconsistent at best, lousy at worst. For long relief he could have turned to Schultz, but he pitched 4 innings on Tuesday, and there was Little, who sports an ERA over 6 against mostly mid-week opponents.

What was Corbin supposed to do yesterday and in the future, when our starter doesn’t have it and can’t make it past the 2nd or 3rd inning? HE HAS NO GOOD OPTIONS, and this late in the season it is highly unlikely that he will develop any. If our starter gets shelled early, I don’t think there is any magic that Corbin can perform that will consistently pull our collective butts out of the fire. At least that’s the way I see it from my living room recliner. He has much more flexibility and many more capable bodies offensively. On the pitching side, it is what it is. Injuries, particularly to Hliboki and Doolin, have tied his hands.

By the way, I think that Pete's "aces and spaces" comment was spot on.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by commadore » Mon May 17, 2021 12:45 pm

charlestonalum wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 6:00 am
Commodoredave wrote:
Sun May 16, 2021 9:17 pm
By the time Maldanado came in, we were down 3 and he was ready to go.

I agree with the whole premise of the thread. Corbs gives guys time to work out of jams during the regular season with and eye on preparation. The reality of today is that we do not have the depth or reliable pitching to go all the way. We have the talent, but the odds that the best of Reilly, Little, Fisher, McIlvain, et al show up is really low. Behind the two elite guys and Maldanado, we simply don't have dependable arms, and it has to be driving Corbs crazy at this point.

Plains in June? Perhaps. Mountaintop in 2021- not in the cards.
This the experimental conclusion: we do not have a deep, dependable pitching staff. It is now perfectly clear So how do you compensate? Make sure you have an offensive lineup, keep critical defensive players in right position, and be ready in the pen to replace whoever is showing early signs of not having "it" that day. if we go far in post season it will be because Corbin changed his typical approach and figured out the mysteries of this particular team. I'm pulling for him and all the boys.
Maybe now, but remember we have lost Hliboki, who was outstanding until he was hurt, Ethan Smith who would have most likely been our closer or third starter, and Garrett who was pitching very well when he got hurt. Add those three to our staff and we have 3-4 more wins.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by charlestonalum » Mon May 17, 2021 3:51 pm

The opening did not impugn our coach not ignore the depleted pitching staff. I do believe Corbin was trying to instill confidence knowing it was a high risk strategy pitching the 2 frosh. I agree the pen should have had more warming up. But my main point was to ask, given the great comments of all above: what can be done to compensate for the Aces and spaces? Can we get to Omaha and if so how?
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Re: Tough Job

Post by AuricGoldfinger » Mon May 17, 2021 6:23 pm

charlestonalum wrote:
Mon May 17, 2021 3:51 pm
Can we get to Omaha and if so how?
I think it's straightforward enough: ride your two pitching studs for games 1 and 2 and hope that we have enough offense to rough up a game 3 starter for the opponent in the regional final and in the super regional game 3 if needed.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by roanoke » Mon May 17, 2021 7:41 pm

We are the number three team in the country.

We have plenty of firepower to get to Omaha. I would not want to play us especially in Nashville.

That doesn't mean we are a lock to get to Omaha. But we should be at home - and we should be favored at each stage.
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Re: Tough Job

Post by baseball1234 » Tue May 18, 2021 7:09 pm

Job just got tougher....Seems to have energized our guys.
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