NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

For fan discussion of the Vanderbilt Commodore baseball program.

Moderators: kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold, NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit

User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

Big change in policy:

[tweet][/tweet]


User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

[tweet][/tweet]
User avatar
cjdore
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by cjdore »

VU will have to open up seating if they hope to get a regional or super-regional!!!!
Levon
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2343
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by Levon »

Are bids restricted to schools/on-campus sites? In other words, could Nashville and/or Vanderbilt, for example, make a bid and use the Sounds stadium as the venue? Could open all kinds of possibilities all over the country.
User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

Levon wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:24 pm Are bids restricted to schools/on-campus sites? In other words, could Nashville and/or Vanderbilt, for example, make a bid and use the Sounds stadium as the venue? Could open all kinds of possibilities all over the country.
It's not unheard of, but is usually due to restrictions in place at the on-campus venue that don't fulfill NCAA requirements (such as lighting, minimums for seating, construction, etc.). A few years ago UC Santa Barbara hosted its regional at Lake Elsinore, CA, which is at least a three-hour drive from campus, due to restrictions at its own ballpark. And I remember many years ago Huntsville was a regional host as a neutral site. But it doesn't happen very often as the best teams really don't want to give up their home field advantage.
User avatar
vujoe
Vice Admiral
Posts: 2760
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by vujoe »

First Horizon Park
Levon
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2343
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by Levon »

AuricGoldfinger wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:56 pm
Levon wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:24 pm Are bids restricted to schools/on-campus sites? In other words, could Nashville and/or Vanderbilt, for example, make a bid and use the Sounds stadium as the venue? Could open all kinds of possibilities all over the country.
It's not unheard of, but is usually due to restrictions in place at the on-campus venue that don't fulfill NCAA requirements (such as lighting, minimums for seating, construction, etc.). A few years ago UC Santa Barbara hosted its regional at Lake Elsinore, CA, which is at least a three-hour drive from campus, due to restrictions at its own ballpark. And I remember many years ago Huntsville was a regional host as a neutral site. But it doesn't happen very often as the best teams really don't want to give up their home field advantage.
I recall that UCSB regional. I was wondering if the NCAA is thinking outside the box. Look and the all-in-Indiana Men's & all-in-San Antonio Women's basketball tourneys, for example. Clearly not played on campus. I like the hosting/seeding process used in baseball; I fear dollars may drive the NCAA to large venues/sites not necessarily on campus. Of course, college baseball doesn't draw like football or basketball, so that may be a factor in this process. I guess it comes down to, I don't much trust the NCAA.
User avatar
AuricGoldfinger
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 16329
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:29 pm
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 223 times
Contact:

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

Levon wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:56 am
I recall that UCSB regional. I was wondering if the NCAA is thinking outside the box. Look and the all-in-Indiana Men's & all-in-San Antonio Women's basketball tourneys, for example. Clearly not played on campus. I like the hosting/seeding process used in baseball; I fear dollars may drive the NCAA to large venues/sites not necessarily on campus. Of course, college baseball doesn't draw like football or basketball, so that may be a factor in this process. I guess it comes down to, I don't much trust the NCAA.
I'm not terribly worried about getting screwed out of a hosting opportunity in baseball for a few reasons (with one exception). One, I think in recent years the NCAA has done right by schools awarding host sites based upon merit rather than attendance potential as long as they met minimum site requirements. A school like Dallas Baptist was allowed to host in 2015, for example, and the NCAA could have awarded a super regional to Mississippi State over Vandy in 2018 had they done it based upon attendance. (The NCAA makes its money from television rights, not ticket sales.) And barring not being able to meet the minimum requirements, the regionals and super regionals are almost always held on campus, whereas the men's basketball tournament is not.

I think minimizing travel was a determining factor behind the basketball "bubbles" in Indiana and Texas. Under ordinary circumstances UCLA, for example, would have had to travel to Dayton for the First Four, then a regional site, then a regional finals site, and then Indianapolis for the Final Four. But in baseball, a team like Vandy or Arkansas may only have to travel once--to Omaha. By keeping 16 teams on campus as regional hosts, that's a full quarter of qualifying schools that won't have to travel at all the first weekend. So it behooves the NCAA to keep as many of the top teams at home as possible.

The one thing I would be slightly concerned with is whether Vandy's COVID protocols align with what the NCAA will want to do regarding fans in the stands. I don't see an overly cautious NCAA mandating that The Hawk be at 100% capacity, but if there are any areas where the school's health and safety mandates are tighter than what the NCAA wants, I suppose it could be an issue.

Now I could easily envision a scenario where a school gets semi-screwed out of hosting a super regional. Let's say, for instance, that South Carolina is a 2 seed in the Atlanta regional hosted by Georgia Tech. But the Cocks eliminate Tech, and on the other side of the bracket 1 seed Tennessee is eliminated by 4 seed ETSU. South Carolina and ETSU would still have to play a super regional in Atlanta, rather than Columbia.
User avatar
cjdore
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 10024
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:13 am
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by cjdore »

I just do not see NCAA rewarding sites with no seating..... Fix it VU!!!!
Levon
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2343
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by Levon »

AuricGoldfinger wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:42 am
Levon wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:56 am
I recall that UCSB regional. I was wondering if the NCAA is thinking outside the box. Look and the all-in-Indiana Men's & all-in-San Antonio Women's basketball tourneys, for example. Clearly not played on campus. I like the hosting/seeding process used in baseball; I fear dollars may drive the NCAA to large venues/sites not necessarily on campus. Of course, college baseball doesn't draw like football or basketball, so that may be a factor in this process. I guess it comes down to, I don't much trust the NCAA.
I'm not terribly worried about getting screwed out of a hosting opportunity in baseball for a few reasons (with one exception). One, I think in recent years the NCAA has done right by schools awarding host sites based upon merit rather than attendance potential as long as they met minimum site requirements. A school like Dallas Baptist was allowed to host in 2015, for example, and the NCAA could have awarded a super regional to Mississippi State over Vandy in 2018 had they done it based upon attendance. (The NCAA makes its money from television rights, not ticket sales.) And barring not being able to meet the minimum requirements, the regionals and super regionals are almost always held on campus, whereas the men's basketball tournament is not.

I think minimizing travel was a determining factor behind the basketball "bubbles" in Indiana and Texas. Under ordinary circumstances UCLA, for example, would have had to travel to Dayton for the First Four, then a regional site, then a regional finals site, and then Indianapolis for the Final Four. But in baseball, a team like Vandy or Arkansas may only have to travel once--to Omaha. By keeping 16 teams on campus as regional hosts, that's a full quarter of qualifying schools that won't have to travel at all the first weekend. So it behooves the NCAA to keep as many of the top teams at home as possible.

The one thing I would be slightly concerned with is whether Vandy's COVID protocols align with what the NCAA will want to do regarding fans in the stands. I don't see an overly cautious NCAA mandating that The Hawk be at 100% capacity, but if there are any areas where the school's health and safety mandates are tighter than what the NCAA wants, I suppose it could be an issue.

Now I could easily envision a scenario where a school gets semi-screwed out of hosting a super regional. Let's say, for instance, that South Carolina is a 2 seed in the Atlanta regional hosted by Georgia Tech. But the Cocks eliminate Tech, and on the other side of the bracket 1 seed Tennessee is eliminated by 4 seed ETSU. South Carolina and ETSU would still have to play a super regional in Atlanta, rather than Columbia.
Auric, these are terrific observations, thanks very much sharing them. Everything you say makes sense.
User avatar
Versus75
Admiral
Posts: 7821
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:19 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by Versus75 »

AuricGoldfinger wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:42 am
I think in recent years the NCAA has done right by schools awarding host sites based upon merit rather than attendance potential as long as they met minimum site requirements. ... the NCAA could have awarded a super regional to Mississippi State over Vandy in 2018 had they done it based upon attendance.

...

By keeping 16 teams on campus as regional hosts, that's a full quarter of qualifying schools that won't have to travel at all the first weekend.
I believe the 2018 Super was hosted by Vanderbilt because Mississippi State had begun a renovation of its baseball facilities immediately after the regular season ended.

~~~

Regarding the 16 regional hosts, that's already being done with a couple exceptions -- as noted previously -- for teams without adequate facilities. Note: Purdue hosted a 2012 regional in Gary, Indiana, which is about 1 1/2 hours away from West Lafayette.
https://www.ncaa.com/sports/baseball/d1

What I DON'T understand is why the Super Regionals will only be held at the locale of one of the winners if that location was predetermined. In that case, NEITHER team would stay home.

And then whatever number of fans will be allowed into the games, twice as many fans will have to travel. Or, perhaps, there just won't be too many folks showing up.

Since this has already been leaked, it would be good of the NCAA to release a full statement with its rationale. Could be that the so-called "National Seeds" would be awarded Regionals AND Super Regionals in advance based on the probability of advancing to the Super.

Don't see anything about it on the front page of the NCAA Division 1 Baseball coverage.


HERE'S AN IDEA: After the regionals, send all 16 winners to Omaha. Hold Super Regionals at TD Ameritrade Park (home of the College World Series) and nearby Werner Park (home of the AAA-Omaha Storm Chasers). After the Supers, 8 teams go home and 8 teams stay for the CWS.


PS: I vote for LOUISVILLE as a Super Regional site hosting Vanderbilt and Georgia Tech.
User avatar
Versus75
Admiral
Posts: 7821
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:19 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 40 times

Re: NCAA will pre-determine Regional and Super Regional sites this year

Post by Versus75 »

I read this blurb on the Baseball America Projected Field of 64 article:

"In the last week, the NCAA has decided on a slightly altered postseason structure for 2021. Instead of awarding the 16 host sites on the eve of Selection Monday, chosen based on the merits of the season, the selection committee will instead pick the host sites a few weeks in advance of the rest of the field. The changes are a result of the need to create a testing site at each regional, which can’t be done with just a few days of lead time."

That's not exactly the same as saying that the Super Regional sites will be set in advance regardless of the outcome of the regionals. If the rationale is that a testing site be set up, then it makes sense that the NCAA set 16 regional sites and then choose Super Regional sites among those.

Using the BA Projected 64 example, if #16 seed (and regional host) Oregon wins its region but #1 seed Arkansas loses its region the Super Regional host would be Oregon. The testing site is already in place.

In the rare case of neither regional host winning its region, the NCAA could send two teams to a neutral site or go to work quickly and set up the testing elsewhere. Or the NCAA could make things interesting by switching up the pairings to take advantage of those brackets in which both regional hosts won.
Locked Previous topicNext topic