Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

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vandytoad
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by vandytoad »

Historybill, we lost internet because of the storm and just got it back.
The branch of which you speak is Wilson Springs Branch. The spring is still there near the roundabout of 8th Av S and Lafayette St. It flows into a pipe which empties into the Cumberland River south of Broadway.
I have not walked the pipe but if you enter the mouth at the river it is brick for a section and then it becomes stone before becoming brick, then stone, and finally brick all the way to the spring. What happened is that what is now Second and Third Avenues South crossed the branch on stone bridges. When the branch was piped the bridges were incorporated into the pipe. Because the area was prone to flooding, the elevation was raised by fill to cover the pipe. It still flooded in May, 2010.

Metro Water will finish a $400 million 75 mgd Central sewer plant expansion by the end of the year which should eliminate many of the CSO's from the Kerrigan CSS and reduce the volume of the remainder. The state has designated the river downstream of the plant as a human water no contact advisory area because of the CSO's. This should enable the state to lift the advisory.

I attach the January, 2023 CSO report.

https://www.cleanwaternashville.org/s/CSO-Jan2023.pdf


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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by OldDude »

This is one of the most off topic threads I have seen on this board and also one of the most interesting. Thanks to all - only at VU !
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by vandytoad »

I gave a talk about the Metro sewer program to the local chapter of the Sierra Club a few years ago. The then president was a Vanderbilt classmate and friend of my wife. I think she let me speak solely because of their friendship. She later told me that she thought the talk would be dishwater dull but could not believe how interesting it was. When I told the audience that in water/sewer parlance, when sewers overflowed and tampons got into the stream they were called "whitefish", the high school students in attendance thought I was the coolest guy on the planet.

Vanderbilt U and VUMC are not passive participants in the Kerrigan combined sewer area. The runoff from the campuses are a major contributor to overflows into the Cumberland River. I have tried to get the Vanderbilt horticulturalist to identify spots on the public streets running through campus where trees can be planted. Metro is giving them away for free. In addition to beautifying the campus, the trees will clean and cool the campus, improving the health of students, faculty, and staff, as well reduce runoff.
Most of the buildings are flat roofed and would be suitable for green roofs when next replaced. Green roofs, while more expensive to install and maintain, reduce stormwater runoff, last longer because they do not get anywhere as hot, can provide habitat for native bees and pollinators, and reduce energy costs because they provide better insulation.
The parking lots can be paved with permeable pavement which would reduce runoff as well. While they have to be vacumned periodically to remove dirt which clogs the pores, the maintenance is not all that much.
Vanderbilt has said it was wants to be environmentally conscious but it is not doing these things.

I attach a video about green roofs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJoBhLnqko
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by FayetteDore »

Vandytoad:

1. I see the names and maps of the combined sewer system drainage basins here: https://www.nashville.gov/departments/w ... -csobasins. Do you know why it came to be named Kerrigan? Perhaps the lead engineer when it was set up? Head of the Public Works Department? One of the moderators of this forum? ;)

2. If money was no object (and of course it IS), history could be rewritten, and in a perfect world, would it be better if those streams had been left to flow naturally (unpiped), creating little greenways in the heart of the city (and on campus)? Or would flooding be worse? There's a nice Second Creek Greenway separating the UT campus from downtown Knoxville -- a very peaceful stretch.

Thanks for the fascinating discussion.
Last edited by FayetteDore on Mon Mar 06, 2023 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by DS2001 »

I agree, this thread has been a fascinating read. Wouldn’t it be cool if you could see a subterranean view of Nashville with all of the springs, creeks, and pipes?
It’s a marvel that for the most part, the pipes and brick sewers have done their job for many years.
This past week on “Tennessee Crossroads” on NPT, there was a piece on the Nashville 8th Ave. Reservoir, how it ruptured back in the 1920’s, and how it has been reinforced to provide water for the city today. I guess I’m a geek about this stuff!
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by 3rdFloorDyer »

Just to be clear - is there a creek constantly flowing through the giant Dudley pipe, or is it just for excess storm/sewage (eek) drainage.
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by vandytoad »

Fayette Dore, I don't know for whom Kerrigan was named. I assume it is for someone prominent in the establishment of the Nashville water and sewer system.

The map you attached is somewhat dated. Van Buren and Broadway no longer overflow, having been remediated about ten years ago. The last time Driftwood overflowed was the May, 2010 flood when the river over topped the open top storage tank which sits at the base of the Silliman Evans bridge off Hermitage Avenue.

Schrader in north Nashville and Bendict & Crutcher and Boscobel in east Nashville will be dug up and separated by 2032. Much of Kerrigan's overflow will be remediated by the Central plant expansion. Washington got a mini treatment plant about 15 years ago which greatly reduced overflow but it still is a pretty big source.

You can always dig up the combined sewer and separate the sanitary flow and restore the stream but it just about always the most expensive approach. Cincinnati did so in part of its Mill Creek basin. Most of the time storage tanks are used. Detroit actually holds back excessive flows by inflating dams in the pipes to hold water until the storm passes. London's combined sewer, built in the 1850's, has a design capacity for 4 million people while 8 million use it now. London is digging a 16 mile long tunnel underneath the river to hold excess flow until it can be treated in an expanded sewer plant.

This a great video on the London project. https://tideway.london/the-tunnel

At a certain point the tunnel flows like a stream. For years Cockrill Spring flowed 24/7 into the pipe. It was daylighted about ten years ago. The water flows for a short time, is pumped into Lake Watauga and the flow from the lake is sent into the Kerrigan pipe. Lower down the mineral springs in the Bicentennial Mall area flow directly into the pipe 24/7.

This is one of the best videos of a CSO I have ever seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzWOOqPAEgs




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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by buffy »

And this is just one of the many reasons I'm grateful for this community. Cheers.
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Re: Sewer pipe underneath Dudley Field?

Post by FayetteDore »

Brent's posting of the South End Zone work photo in his separate post on Coach Lea reminded me to check in on construction cam in this thread.

Click on the cam in the Brent's first post in this thread and you'll see that whatever they're doing to the pipe continues appears to be the main focus of North End Zone work right now, along with a couple of drilling machines on the periphery. They appear to be building a large concrete culvert around the pipe that I'm guessing may later divert the flow.

Perhaps Vandytoad can look at it and let us know?

(Sorry for bringing this thread back to the top just as spring practice gets underway and the NIT game is tomorrow.)
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