If stars matter, how did Appalachian State beat Texas A&M?

[BrentVU]

In the Athletic (premium) today, a mailbag reader asks analyst Ari Wasserman about the secret to Appalachian State's continued success; Texas A&M signed eight five-star prospects in the 2022 class. App State has signed six top-1,000 players in the last four years. "Looking at wins since the mid-2000s, they are one of the top schools in the country, regardless of tier. How do they keep it rolling?"

I thought the answer was insightful. It's premium so I'll only quote part of it.

Upsets happen in this sport and it’s glorious. It doesn’t mean that recruiting all of a sudden doesn’t matter. When upsets do happen, it’s usually a nice little magnifying glass into the issues that are impacting the talented teams. Scott Frost was fired at Nebraska. Texas A&M’s offensive philosophy is under fire. And Marcus Freeman is getting a rude welcome into how hard it is to be a head coach at a big-time program. Life in the big city.

But you asked about Appalachian State, and here’s the best answer I can come up with. That is a program that from 1989 through 2012 had one coach in Jerry Moore who set the foundation of what it wanted to be. It has a plan, it knows what it is and it steadfastly sticks with it. That tradition carried forward to Scott Satterfield, Eli Drinkwitz and now Shawn Clark.

Who is App State? It is a team that has a system. It recruits extremely athletic players who are very fast but may not be big enough for the Power 5 level or the recruiting rankings we all love to obsess over. It develops those players into the system, has a high bar for excellence and always has a very well-coached roster. So when that team catches a highly talented roster with warts on a bad day, the Texas A&M game is the result...

The Mountaineers are the gold standard for how to build and sustain a program, and watching them move up to the Sun Belt has been a pleasure.

[AuricGoldfinger]

It has a plan, it knows what it is and it steadfastly sticks with it. That tradition carried forward to Scott Satterfield, Eli Drinkwitz and now Shawn Clark.

This is important. While sustaining year-in and year-out success is always going to be difficult at a place like Vanderbilt (look at our peers in Evanston, Durham, and even Palo Alto), if I can point to any one macro area where we went off the rails after James Franklin left, it's that we threw out the owner's manual for what actually worked.

[BrentVU]

This is important. While sustaining year-in and year-out success is always going to be difficult at a place like Vanderbilt (look at our peers in Evanston, Durham, and even Palo Alto), if I can point to any one macro area where we went off the rails after James Franklin left, it's that we threw out the owner's manual for what actually worked.

Hmm... could you clarify this a little bit? Not saying I disagree, just curious as to what you mean, and what you think Vandy should have done differently.

I would say James Franklin was not intending to build Vandy for the long haul... he thought he could win pretty quickly with the players he had on hand, and he did. He also recruited about as well as anyone has done at Vandy. But he also probably went for some quick fixes. Then he left and took all his assistants with him, so Williams (who begged him to stay) was forced to start from scratch.

Williams went with an assistant from a successful private school program who had never been a head man. Derek Mason made some early mistakes with assistant coach hires but eventually got his defense where he wanted it and had modest success (two bowls, three wins over UT). But he couldn't sustain the recruiting level, made some more mistakes with assistant coach hires, and the program fell into a death spiral he couldn't get it out of.

I don't think either Franklin or Mason were ever approaching the job as a total rebuild quite the way Lea is doing.

[Doreknox]

This is important. While sustaining year-in and year-out success is always going to be difficult at a place like Vanderbilt (look at our peers in Evanston, Durham, and even Palo Alto), if I can point to any one macro area where we went off the rails after James Franklin left, it's that we threw out the owner's manual for what actually worked.

Hmm... could you clarify this a little bit? Not saying I disagree, just curious as to what you mean, and what you think Vandy should have done differently.

We had a team recruited for and suited to play Franklin's offense and defense. We were successful in both areas under him. Instead of trying to find a coach who would use the same approach, Williams hired the exact opposite. Mason immediately changed our offense and defense and never recruited the personnel he needed to be truly successful at either one. Mason was a lazy and unimaginative hire who thought we could play Stanford football in the SEC. Williams severely damaged the program by hiring and then by keeping CDM around too long.

We'll see if Lea, another ex-DC, fares any better. He looks just as lost as Mason on offense, which is what anyone with half a brain should have anticipated. Lea is facing a rebuild due to the depleted roster because of the transfer portal, which has killed our depth and talent level. At least he can recruit.

[Minoadoc]

need to take a closer look at App State. They did rock Michigan in the Big House several years ago, but nowadays, with transfer portal, its possible that they may have some better players transferring in than they can recruit out of HS. Players leave for PT, to be closer to home, and too much mischief on trips to Hawaii. Of course, App St may also have coaches and schemes that allow them to shock P-5 schools. Probably a combination of all of the above

[Minoadoc]

This is important. While sustaining year-in and year-out success is always going to be difficult at a place like Vanderbilt (look at our peers in Evanston, Durham, and even Palo Alto), if I can point to any one macro area where we went off the rails after James Franklin left, it's that we threw out the owner's manual for what actually worked.

Hmm... could you clarify this a little bit? Not saying I disagree, just curious as to what you mean, and what you think Vandy should have done differently.

We had a team recruited for and suited to play Franklin's offense and defense. We were successful in both areas under him. Instead of trying to find a coach who would use the same approach, Williams hired the exact opposite. Mason immediately changed our offense and defense and never recruited the personnel he needed to be truly successful at either one. Mason was a lazy and unimaginative hire who thought we could play Stanford football in the SEC. Williams severely damaged the program by hiring and then by keeping CDM around too long.

We'll see if Lea, another ex-DC, fares any better. He looks just as lost as Mason on offense, which is what anyone with half a brain should have anticipated. Lea is facing a rebuild due to the depleted roster because of the transfer portal, which has killed our depth and talent level. At least he can recruit.

I'm also a Syracuse fan. Its only two games into the season, but last spring, after hiring the successful OC and the QB coach from UVa after their coach got fired, last years decrepit offense is playing with imagination and success with essentially the same personal. The Syracuse HC, Babers, was hired 5-6 years ago as an offensive coach (two players became NFL QB's). Might have been the Asst Coaches

[commadore]

Heard on the SEC Network on radio that Marshall had 24 transfers in this year. That certainly could have helped them.

[Versus75]

And when Satterfield jumped to the University of Louisville, he took his best recruit — QB Evan Conley — with him. Sound familiar?

Conley has thrown 95 passes in 3 seasons at Louisville. He could have been the star for App. State.

[FayetteDore]

It recruits extremely athletic players who are very fast but may not be big enough for the Power 5 level or the recruiting rankings we all love to obsess over. It develops those players into the system, has a high bar for excellence and always has a very well-coached roster.
Not me. In fact, I don't pay any attention to them at all. Too many things to occupy my mind other than rankings of thousands of high school kids. My teams will get who they get.


So when that team catches a highly talented roster with warts on a bad day, the Texas A&M game is the result...
This!! I like Appy State. I like the college, its team, its town and its region. But sometimes they just catch a team on a bad day. If upsets don't happen, why play the game?

[VU1970]

Don't forget, Appy State also nearly beat North Carolina, losing 63-61 in overtime.

[3rdFloorDyer]

Don't forget, Appy State also nearly beat North Carolina, losing 63-61 in overtime.

That score was in regulation, no overtime.

[vandy05]

need to take a closer look at App State. They did rock Michigan in the Big House several years ago, but nowadays, with transfer portal, its possible that they may have some better players transferring in than they can recruit out of HS. Players leave for PT, to be closer to home, and too much mischief on trips to Hawaii. Of course, App St may also have coaches and schemes that allow them to shock P-5 schools. Probably a combination of all of the above

Would you believe that the "several years ago" you noted about App State beating Michigan was 15 years ago! They've been doing this for a while now.

[VU1970]

Don't forget, Appy State also nearly beat North Carolina, losing 63-61 in overtime.

That score was in regulation, no overtime.

Oops. The horror, the horror.

[Johnmn555]

It recruits extremely athletic players who are very fast but may not be big enough for the Power 5 level or the recruiting rankings we all love to obsess over.[/i]

I don't think our academic requirements would allow you to focus on one type of player as part of an overall strategy. For example, if we are limited to a 25 percent segment of decent players due to academic requirements, who would be left if we focused on "extremely athletic players who are very fast but not that big" within the 25 percent? We have to go after players with all sorts of attributes within the 25 percent, or we won't have very many players to go after.

[Dores137]

App State has played Power 5 teams tough for years. Since the start of the 2017 season, they are 3-5 versus Power 5 schools with wins over UNC in 2019, South Carolina in 2019, and Texas A&M this year. Of the 4 loses, three were by 2 points or less (Wake Forest in 2017, Miami in 2021 and UNC this year), one was a 7 point loss in overtime to then #10 Penn State (2018) and a 21 point loss to National Championship runner up Georgia in 2017.

The sad part about looking at this, since the start of the 2019 season they actually have more SEC wins than Vandy does. Vanderbilt should take a close look at App State's program, could learn a thing or two.

[geeznotagain]

An individual with a degree from Southern New Hampshire may earn more in his career than an individual with a Vandy degree. But I don’t like his odds.

[thefan]

Having lived in East Tennessee where Appalachian State liked to recruit, I think they have a great appeal to young athletes who are very athletic but do not have the size (height and weight) that the bigger conferences are attempting to recruit. Reason that Appalachian State beat Texas A&M is probably three pronged: (1.) Appalachian State is pretty good talent and coaching wise, (2.) North Carolina and Texas A&M are over rated (especially A&M), (3.) Appalachian State was likely considered a pickup game to boost bowl eligibility and Appalachian State was just plain hungrier; growl!

[zhanglini]

I just saw on youtube they had "an insane ending" today, came back and beat Troy.

[charlestonalum]

I just saw on youtube they had "an insane ending" today, came back and beat Troy.

It was a 52 yard hail mary that defense batted up and they caught the tpped ball and ran it in. Lucky would be a fitting term.

[FayetteDore]

I just saw on youtube they had "an insane ending" today, came back and beat Troy.

It was a 52 yard hail mary that defense batted up and they caught the tpped ball and ran it in. Lucky would be a fitting term.

Easy to call it luck when you' watch the replay in slow-mo but in real time, 1) the ASU QB had the skill to throw a 55-yard Hail Mary while scrambling, and 2) the scorer, who wasn't even one of the 3 ASU receivers in the scrum, had the skill to run over and quickly grab the batted ball, then run around to score. After looking at the play several times, I'd say more skill than luck.