SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

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SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by BrentVU »

The ACC, which has 14 teams plus occasional member Notre Dame, is currently reconsidering its schedule rotation. They're looking hard at a 3-5 model, with three permanent opponents and five which rotate. Changes could begin as soon as 2023.

The SEC, which will expand from 14 to 16 teams as soon as 2025, will reportedly consider changes to the current 6-1-1 format at its spring meetings in a couple of weeks. The objective will be for each team to rotate through playing all the other teams more frequently; under the current model, it takes 14 years for a team to rotate through a home-and-home with all the teams in the other division.

Making changes could mean a 9-game SEC schedule, and it could spell the end of the current divisional format. (Having two eight-team divisions where every school in the division plays the others every year doesn't seem too feasible.) Multiple options will be on the table. The scenarios are discussed in a (premium) piece on The Athletic:

The Athletic (Premium): What will SEC’s new schedule look like? Officials hope to settle on new model next month (by Aaron Suttles and Seth Emerson)
https://theathletic.com/3306322/2022/05 ... gn=4255881

If anybody has any great ideas on how to set up a rotating schedule with 16 teams, Commissioner Sankey and the AD's would probably like to hear from you! There are lots of traditional rivalries that are sacred cows, and some of them will probably have to go away with the addition of the Sooners and Longhorns. Also, no one wants to weaken the conference's ability to get teams into the College Football Playoff.


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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by FrmrMrC »

My thought was that with 16 teams, you go to 4 pods (North, South, East and West; or whatever name strikes your fancy). This would work if you wanted to keep an 8 game SEC schedule (and would play every team home and home over 8 years) or if they wanted to expand to 9 games (4 home, 4 away and 1 neutral).

For 8 game schedule: (can re-align and manipulate to keep traditional rivalries, this is just an example.)
North: Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri
East: S. Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee
South: Alabama, Auburn, Ms State, Ole Miss
West: Texas, A+M, Oklahoma, LSU

Each season, 2 pods will join to form a division (Ex: North West and South East) Your team will play all 7 teams in this division (Vandy would play Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU and A+M) They would additionally play 1 team from the directionally opposite division (either Bama, MS State, Ole Miss or Auburn). After 2 seasons, you will have completed a home and home with your entire division, + played 2 of the teams from the directionally opposite division.

After 2 seasons, the pods switch, so it becomes North East vs. South West, so Vanderbilt would play:
Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee + 1 team from the South.

So after 4 seasons, Vandy will have played at least every team in the conference 1, with home and homes completed with most of the teams.

For 9 game schedule:
Same format as above, except the neutral site game is against one team in your pod (Vandy-Kentucky at Nissan Stadium) and you get 2 games against vs. teams in the directionally opposite division (South). This allows home and homes with ALL teams over 4 years (with the exception that you never play UK in Lexington)
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by vandy05 »

FrmrMrC wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 10:58 am My thought was that with 16 teams, you go to 4 pods (North, South, East and West; or whatever name strikes your fancy). This would work if you wanted to keep an 8 game SEC schedule (and would play every team home and home over 8 years) or if they wanted to expand to 9 games (4 home, 4 away and 1 neutral).

For 8 game schedule: (can re-align and manipulate to keep traditional rivalries, this is just an example.)
North: Vanderbilt, Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri
East: S. Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee
South: Alabama, Auburn, Ms State, Ole Miss
West: Texas, A+M, Oklahoma, LSU

Each season, 2 pods will join to form a division (Ex: North West and South East) Your team will play all 7 teams in this division (Vandy would play Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, Texas, Oklahoma, LSU and A+M) They would additionally play 1 team from the directionally opposite division (either Bama, MS State, Ole Miss or Auburn). After 2 seasons, you will have completed a home and home with your entire division, + played 2 of the teams from the directionally opposite division.

After 2 seasons, the pods switch, so it becomes North East vs. South West, so Vanderbilt would play:
Arkansas, Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, Florida, Georgia and Tennessee + 1 team from the South.

So after 4 seasons, Vandy will have played at least every team in the conference 1, with home and homes completed with most of the teams.

For 9 game schedule:
Same format as above, except the neutral site game is against one team in your pod (Vandy-Kentucky at Nissan Stadium) and you get 2 games against vs. teams in the directionally opposite division (South). This allows home and homes with ALL teams over 4 years (with the exception that you never play UK in Lexington)
You're a genius. Seriously, that makes such good sense. Even the way you've lined up the teams makes sense (though I'm biased because I like our annual draw). I wouldn't lose sleep about not playing Tennessee every year. I know its a big deal to us, but in thinking about the broader conference, being able to have Bama/Auburn, MS/MS, OU/Texas and Georgia/Florida as mainstay rivalries in the conference is good for the conference.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by BrentVU »

Here's a follow-up article by the same authors... is the SEC going to nine games? Are the two divisions going to go away? If so, how will the teams be grouped? Which teams will be permanent non-rotating opponents? Supposedly these authors have a little "intel" on this from inside sources (although there are no huge revelations here, only speculation).

The Athletic (premium): SEC football schedule models: 9 conference games? No divisions? Fixed opponents? (by Aaron Suttles and Seth Emerson)
https://theathletic.com/3316970/2022/05 ... onference/
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by dore74 »

Agree that the 4X4 model makes a lot of sense for a 16 team conference. I suspect, however, that we'll fall into a pod with UT, 'Bama and Auburn. Would be a big ask to have to play the Tide every year in football...

While I'd happily accede to Mr C's parings, we gotta admit we have little in common historically with Arkansas and Mizzu and much more with UT, UA and AU. Suspect the other pods would then be:
UF, UGa, USC and UK
MSU, UM, LSU and Mizzu
UO, UT, Aggies and Ark (half of the old southwest conference)
(Mizzu and Arky are most switchable in my humble view)

Interesting to see what the league comes up with.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by fldore »

dore74 wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 9:53 am Agree that the 4X4 model makes a lot of sense for a 16 team conference. I suspect, however, that we'll fall into a pod with UT, 'Bama and Auburn. Would be a big ask to have to play the Tide every year in football...

While I'd happily accede to Mr C's parings, we gotta admit we have little in common historically with Arkansas and Mizzu and much more with UT, UA and AU. Suspect the other pods would then be:
UF, UGa, USC and UK
MSU, UM, LSU and Mizzu
UO, UT, Aggies and Ark (half of the old southwest conference)
(Mizzu and Arky are most switchable in my humble view)

Interesting to see what the league comes up with.
I wonder if A&M would want to be lumped in with Texas as I thought part of the appeal for them to come to the SEC in the first place was to get away from the Longhorns.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by fldore »

Seems like they have a few objectives with one of them being to have the teams rotate through the schedule more quickly. I've heard various versions of the 4 team pods, but if you set it up where you'd always play the other 3 teams in your own everyone from another with then one each from the other two pods to get to 9 games a year, and then every year rotated which pod you'd play all 4 teams, you'd get really close to doing a home and away with every team in a 4 year period but wouldn't quite get there. However if they did away with the divisions entirely from a scheduling perspective and instead did 3 teams you play every year, and then rotate the other 6, you could do a home and away with every team in a 4 year cycle.

One idea that has too many flaws but selfishly I like for Vandy is to split into two 8 team divisions and do a relegation style where each year two or three of the teams from the crappy division move up and two or three teams from the better division move down. Each team would play the other seven teams in their division plus two random teams from the other. That way a team like Vandy would always be guaranteed to play all the other lousy conference teams which means a much better shot of getting bowl eligible. And all the elite teams like Bama and UGA would likely have fewer cupcake conference games on their schedule. You'd probably need to expand the conference tournament to let the winner of the crappy division have a chance to win the title in the event they are actually the best team. 4 team playoff. winner of top division play winner of second division in one semifinal. And 2nd and 3rd place team in top division in other semifinal.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by Versus75 »

fldore wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:57 pm ... do a relegation style where each year two or three of the teams from the crappy division move up and two or three teams from the better division move down.
This could be done for every FBS conference and separate bowls could be staged for the better teams in the crappy division.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by FayetteDore »

On a pure entertainment level, I'm all for rotating through all the SEC teams as quickly as possible, but I'd like to keep UT and UK as perennial opponents. They are close, easy road trips and tradition ought to count for something. Certainly don't mind NOT seeing Georgia and Florida across the field every year. South Carolina, meh. Still can't believe we haven't beaten the Gamecocks in 13 years.

I've expressed opposition to a 9-game conference schedule because I think that will hurt VU. Truth is, we won't know whether we're okay with how things turn out until we see who they assign as our permanent opponents and what the rotation scheme looks like. IF we're placed in a division or pod with all powerhouses in order to "balance it out," and face a 9-game conference schedule to boot, to me it would be another brick in the wall.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

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... we don't need no education...
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by BrentVU »

Go Vandy! wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:32 am ... we don't need no education...
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by FrmrMrC »

fldore wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:57 pm Seems like they have a few objectives with one of them being to have the teams rotate through the schedule more quickly. I've heard various versions of the 4 team pods, but if you set it up where you'd always play the other 3 teams in your own everyone from another with then one each from the other two pods to get to 9 games a year, and then every year rotated which pod you'd play all 4 teams, you'd get really close to doing a home and away with every team in a 4 year period but wouldn't quite get there. However if they did away with the divisions entirely from a scheduling perspective and instead did 3 teams you play every year, and then rotate the other 6, you could do a home and away with every team in a 4 year cycle.
That is exactly what would happen if you played in the proposed pod system.
Year 1: Pod A plays: all of Pod B (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 2: Pod A plays: all of Pod B (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 3: Pod A plays: all of Pod D (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 4: Pod A plays: all of Pod D (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)

You have now played 4 home and away games against all teams in all 3 other pods over 4 years.
this requires a 9 game SEC schedule, which would be fine IMO (we already play 8 SEC + 1 Power 5)

Your other idea would never gain any traction.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by FrmrMrC »

BrentVU wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:45 am
Go Vandy! wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:32 am ... we don't need no education...
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by Ndorefin »

I foresee no divisions, a 3 team permanent foe (ut, ky, om) and 6 rotating every year. You would play every team every 2 years. The big drawback is you would have 4 home games one year and 5 the next. I would like to see 8 SEC games every year, but we have to face the fact no one is interested in making it easier. The SEC is looking for big money with adding 2 more teams and a new TV contract worth, maybe, $1billion!
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by MikenNashville »

Ndorefin wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 2:16 pm I foresee no divisions, a 3 team permanent foe (ut, ky, om) and 6 rotating every year. You would play every team every 2 years. The big drawback is you would have 4 home games one year and 5 the next. I would like to see 8 SEC games every year, but we have to face the fact no one is interested in making it easier. The SEC is looking for big money with adding 2 more teams and a new TV contract worth, maybe, $1billion!
I agree, I think this is what happens. With Vanderbilt likely playing ut, ky om every year. Some other examples I could see is Georgia permanent 3 be Florida, Auburn, and So. Carolina, Alabama Permanent opponents be Auburn, LSU, and ut, etc. Then rotate through the others over a 4 year period.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by fldore »

FrmrMrC wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:09 am

That is exactly what would happen if you played in the proposed pod system.
Year 1: Pod A plays: all of Pod B (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 2: Pod A plays: all of Pod B (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 3: Pod A plays: all of Pod D (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)
Year 4: Pod A plays: all of Pod D (2 home, 2 away) and 1/2 of Pod C (1 home and 1 away)

You have now played 4 home and away games against all teams in all 3 other pods over 4 years.
this requires a 9 game SEC schedule, which would be fine IMO (we already play 8 SEC + 1 Power 5)

Your other idea would never gain any traction.
Ah yes that makes sense. I guess I was envisioning where you'd rotate being matched up with all three pods. So if in year 5 if you played all 4 teams from Pod C, that would mess up the four year cycle. I guess you'd have to set it up where you'd never share a "division" with pod C and would only do so with B and D. Which I suppose doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

Oh I'm still on board with my relegation idea! I'm sure the SEC would never want to as it never guarantees playing all the other teams, it would make it harder for the elite teams to qualify as an at large bid as their schedules would be harder, and I cant imagine they'd want to create a 4 team conference playoff. Just another opportunity for an elite team to lose a game and get knocked out of national playoff contention. But I do think it'd make the conference play more interesting at the best teams would almost routinely only playing other good teams. UGA wouldnt get to load up on the Kentucky, Vandy, and USC's of the world each year. And would give some of the lower tier teams a more realistic chance of making the sec playoff. One of those James Franklin teams that finished top25 would have probably won the the lower division and we would have been in that 4 team playoff. We have zero hope in ever finishing top 2 in a 16 team SEC super league.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by BrentVU »

The great news about this is... every school in the SEC is going to want Vandy in their pod! (I always wanted to be popular when I was growing up.)
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by Dores22 »

Someone pass this idea along to Sankey. It tries to take into account the historical strength of programs (thus parity in scheduling), keep as many rivalries as possible, and geographic sense for annual games. The only negatives that seem to jump out are loss of the annual Alabama-Auburn game and Vandy getting Alabama every year. Also requires a nine game SEC schedule. Instances where "historical strength" might be subject to greater debate are marked with a asterisk, but as explained below, shouldn't affect SOS too much.


Pod A
1 Alabama
4 Vanderbilt
3 Kentucky
2 Tennessee

Pod B
1 Georgia
4 South Carolina
2-3* Auburn
2-3* Florida

Pod C
1-2* Texas A&M
3-4* Mississippi State
3-4* Ole Miss
1-2* LSU

Pod D
1 Oklahoma
3-4* Missouri
3-4* Arkansas
2 Texas

Each team plays the team in their own pod every year. They then play "seeds" 1 and 4 from two pods and a seed 2 and 3 from the other pod in year one and reverse it the following year. In the instances where seedings are somewhat debatable, the SOS doesn't really suffer.

So Vanderbilt would get the following teams in year one: Alabama, Kentucky Tennessee, Georgia, South Carolina, Ole Miss, LSU, Oklahoma, Missouri. Year two: Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Auburn, Florida, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Texas.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by Go Vandy! »

BrentVU wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:24 pm...(I always wanted to be popular when I was growing up.)
Me, too! Never was, still aren't, but hope springs internal.
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Re: SEC to talk about scheduling changes at spring meetings

Post by cc11316 »

Looking at these potential schedules with Oklahoma and Texas in the mix and 9 games instead of 8 just makes me shake my head and cry a little. Vandy has no business with that schedule. We may not see a bowl game for 30 more years if they have to get 4 conference wins out of that schedule (assuming they get 2 out of 3 wins in non-conference games). Lea has a nearly impossible job of recruiting with the handicaps he has compared to his competition.
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