TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by FayetteDore »

In the separate thread about the Star V helmet, somebody used "ol poot" to describe VU fans who cling to the Star V.

You wanna see Ol Poot?!? I'LL show you Ol Poot!

I'd like to see: The old 10-member SEC back, but wouldn't mind Georgia Tech and Tulane coming back into the fold. The Southwest Conference comprising Texas schools plus Arkansas. The Big Eight stretching across the Great Plains. A Big Ten with TEN (10!) Midwestern teams. An ACC that was primarily Carolina to Maryland.

That's the way it was. AND I LIKED IT! :lol: ;) 8-)

PS -- I like the Star V too!!


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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by Doreknox »

If Vanderbilt were to leave the SEC today, I doubt they would leave alone. Teaming KY and VU for membership the Big Ten or the ACC makes a lot of sense. Neither school is going to benefit from conference expansion aside from financial gains. VU is a better fit culturally in both conferences. The ACC is already in the state of KY. The Cats have potential border rivalies in IL, IU and OSU. There is a lot to think about here.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by JWCommodore »

Vandy & Clemson should just swap conferences......
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by MrMemorial »

JWCommodore wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:49 pm Vandy & Clemson should just swap conferences......
I heard some talk long ago that UGa would have a meltdown if Clemson was invited in. Aren't they geographically close together? Like a 70 mile drive if that? Georgia already has Auburn 35 miles from the state of Georgia's border. There is only so much recruiting advantage they would be willing to give up.

There probably isn't much chance the SEC would try to go bigger than 16 teams at least in my lifetime. I could envision FSU and Miami to the SEC someday. Maybe.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by coachinwaiting »

My understanding has always been that it took more than a single objection to keep a new member out, but the schools that were singularly represented in their states had agreed to stand together for each other. In other words, Florida couldn't keep FSU out, but Georgia, Kentucky, Florida, and South Carolina could. That consortium could also keep out Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, etc. Apparently, Texas A&M hasn't been brought into the fold of this pact, and some reports suggest the A&M administration was excluded from talks with Texas and Oklahoma from the jump. This may all be idle speculation, but it is beginning to take on a lot of weight. I've said it before, and I will continue to believe that Texas would be a huge mistake in the SEC. I think it would be a mistake for the league, for individual members, and for Texas itself.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by mathguy »

coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:07 pm I've said it before, and I will continue to believe that Texas would be a huge mistake in the SEC. I think it would be a mistake for the league, for individual members, and for Texas itself.
Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?

Worst case scenario: They invite a prominent program with a huge fan and alumni base into the conference, and get a team that isn't able to hang with the SEC big boys, but still provides another routinely competitive team in the conference that is occasionally/regularly in the top 25. Plus, the addition of a team with a large fan base means more fans, more sales, more money.

Best case: Texas is elevated by the SEC and becomes a powerhouse program that contends for national titles. Adding more fodder for the "SEC is the best, most dominant league" narrative.

Where does the SEC lose in this? Because traditional SEC fans don't care about this new addition? They'll still tune in to root against a new rival, and in 25 years half of their fans won't even remember Texas is a "new" team...
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by coachinwaiting »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:40 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:07 pm I've said it before, and I will continue to believe that Texas would be a huge mistake in the SEC. I think it would be a mistake for the league, for individual members, and for Texas itself.
Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?

Worst case scenario: They invite a prominent program with a huge fan and alumni base into the conference, and get a team that isn't able to hang with the SEC big boys, but still provides another routinely competitive team in the conference that is occasionally/regularly in the top 25. Plus, the addition of a team with a large fan base means more fans, more sales, more money.

Best case: Texas is elevated by the SEC and becomes a powerhouse program that contends for national titles. Adding more fodder for the "SEC is the best, most dominant league" narrative.

Where does the SEC lose in this? Because traditional SEC fans don't care about this new addition? They'll still tune in to root against a new rival, and in 25 years half of their fans won't even remember Texas is a "new" team...
It's my opinion ONLY, but I don't think it will be the final incarnation of the league. If the 11 required votes are secured (if that is indeed the number), I think it signals that there are more than a few programs who are throwing in the towel on competitive football for a much bigger check. They appear to be accepting the Washington Generals role as perennial losers and whipping boys to the blue blood members of the league. Maybe the fan base of the league will increase initially, but will the fans remain engaged at the schools where their prospects are essentially nil? I understand that exists to a point now, but even the two Mississippi schools have seen themselves in the top 3 of the BCS/CFP in the last decade. How do you convince yourself, or more importantly high school seniors, that a program with marginal historical success will be able to succeed against that level of competition?

I believe the SEC will lose some of the tradition and identity it has if this expansion takes place. It isn't just expansion, it is this particular expansion. Maybe Greg Sankey is just reading the tea leaves and maybe he knows a lot more than is public right now and he knows that the Big XII is going to be raided so it might as well be the SEC. Who knows. But if the news had leaked that the SEC was looking to expand into 2 new states to widen its footprint and it was accepting a Virginia and a North Carolina school, I'd say bravo. I won't even specify which two, but suffice to say from the ACC. I would have preferences, but that's neither here nor there. To me, that makes sense for the conference membership as a whole. Adding Texas and Oklahoma makes sense for the top half of the league, maybe even less. Followers of this board should know I'm an Alabama fan first who also loves Vanderbilt. This move is probably highly regarded in Tuscaloosa, but I can't be excited about it. To me it looks like the next step toward a complete realignment of college football and a loss of what little charm it had left.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

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drop on to dirtburglars for unfiltered OU debauchery. Lightly moderated. No holds barred. Only thing we ask is not political posts in Football, and no racial slurs.

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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by MikenNashville »

From what I’ve read for Texas to move now would cost them around $400 million including $150 million for the Longhorn network. If they wait until 2025 it drops down to around $70 million so they are in no hurry to move right away. The cost for Oklahoma would be $250 million now or $70 million in 2025. Also, it appears what started this whole thing was the ACC who reached out to Texas and Oklahoma about joining that conference to get a better TV deal in the next round.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by mathguy »

coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:26 pm
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:40 pm
Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?
It's my opinion ONLY, but I don't think it will be the final incarnation of the league. If the 11 required votes are secured (if that is indeed the number), I think it signals that there are more than a few programs who are throwing in the towel on competitive football for a much bigger check. They appear to be accepting the Washington Generals role as perennial losers and whipping boys to the blue blood members of the league. Maybe the fan base of the league will increase initially, but will the fans remain engaged at the schools where their prospects are essentially nil? I understand that exists to a point now, but even the two Mississippi schools have seen themselves in the top 3 of the BCS/CFP in the last decade. How do you convince yourself, or more importantly high school seniors, that a program with marginal historical success will be able to succeed against that level of competition?

I believe the SEC will lose some of the tradition and identity it has if this expansion takes place. It isn't just expansion, it is this particular expansion. Maybe Greg Sankey is just reading the tea leaves and maybe he knows a lot more than is public right now and he knows that the Big XII is going to be raided so it might as well be the SEC. Who knows. But if the news had leaked that the SEC was looking to expand into 2 new states to widen its footprint and it was accepting a Virginia and a North Carolina school, I'd say bravo. I won't even specify which two, but suffice to say from the ACC. I would have preferences, but that's neither here nor there. To me, that makes sense for the conference membership as a whole. Adding Texas and Oklahoma makes sense for the top half of the league, maybe even less. Followers of this board should know I'm an Alabama fan first who also loves Vanderbilt. This move is probably highly regarded in Tuscaloosa, but I can't be excited about it. To me it looks like the next step toward a complete realignment of college football and a loss of what little charm it had left.
Fair enough. Not sure I agre, but fair enough.

As to your first point, right now in order to be good enough to have a realistic chance of winning the SEC you need to have a realistic chance of winning the National Title. Adding Texas and Oklahoma doesn't change that. It's no harder to beat Alabama, Oklahoma, and LSU than it is to beat Alabama, LSU, and Georgia. I don't think that matters much.

Regarding your second point, I don't think you are wrong, but I think your argument is a personal opinion and not a business decision.Yes, adding Texas and Oklahoma does make the SEC less of an actual "southeastern" conference ... but I promise you that is, at best, 38th on Greg Sankey's priority list. This may cost us some charm ... but it makes a whole lotta cash!

Finally, I think you are right, that it is the next step toward the complete realignment of college football. It is coming. Following this, I am wondering if the Big 12 will be defunct in a few years. Shoot, CBSSports had an article about the likely conferences for the remaining Big 12 teams to jump to.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by MrMemorial »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:26 pm
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:40 pm
Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?
It's my opinion ONLY, but I don't think it will be the final incarnation of the league. If the 11 required votes are secured (if that is indeed the number), I think it signals that there are more than a few programs who are throwing in the towel on competitive football for a much bigger check. They appear to be accepting the Washington Generals role as perennial losers and whipping boys to the blue blood members of the league. Maybe the fan base of the league will increase initially, but will the fans remain engaged at the schools where their prospects are essentially nil? I understand that exists to a point now, but even the two Mississippi schools have seen themselves in the top 3 of the BCS/CFP in the last decade. How do you convince yourself, or more importantly high school seniors, that a program with marginal historical success will be able to succeed against that level of competition?

I believe the SEC will lose some of the tradition and identity it has if this expansion takes place. It isn't just expansion, it is this particular expansion. Maybe Greg Sankey is just reading the tea leaves and maybe he knows a lot more than is public right now and he knows that the Big XII is going to be raided so it might as well be the SEC. Who knows. But if the news had leaked that the SEC was looking to expand into 2 new states to widen its footprint and it was accepting a Virginia and a North Carolina school, I'd say bravo. I won't even specify which two, but suffice to say from the ACC. I would have preferences, but that's neither here nor there. To me, that makes sense for the conference membership as a whole. Adding Texas and Oklahoma makes sense for the top half of the league, maybe even less. Followers of this board should know I'm an Alabama fan first who also loves Vanderbilt. This move is probably highly regarded in Tuscaloosa, but I can't be excited about it. To me it looks like the next step toward a complete realignment of college football and a loss of what little charm it had left.
Fair enough. Not sure I agre, but fair enough.

As to your first point, right now in order to be good enough to have a realistic chance of winning the SEC you need to have a realistic chance of winning the National Title. Adding Texas and Oklahoma doesn't change that. It's no harder to beat Alabama, Oklahoma, and LSU than it is to beat Alabama, LSU, and Georgia. I don't think that matters much.

Regarding your second point, I don't think you are wrong, but I think your argument is a personal opinion and not a business decision.Yes, adding Texas and Oklahoma does make the SEC less of an actual "southeastern" conference ... but I promise you that is, at best, 38th on Greg Sankey's priority list. This may cost us some charm ... but it makes a whole lotta cash!

Finally, I think you are right, that it is the next step toward the complete realignment of college football. It is coming. Following this, I am wondering if the Big 12 will be defunct in a few years. Shoot, CBSSports had an article about the likely conferences for the remaining Big 12 teams to jump to.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by coachinwaiting »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:26 pm
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:40 pm
Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?
It's my opinion ONLY, but I don't think it will be the final incarnation of the league. If the 11 required votes are secured (if that is indeed the number), I think it signals that there are more than a few programs who are throwing in the towel on competitive football for a much bigger check. They appear to be accepting the Washington Generals role as perennial losers and whipping boys to the blue blood members of the league. Maybe the fan base of the league will increase initially, but will the fans remain engaged at the schools where their prospects are essentially nil? I understand that exists to a point now, but even the two Mississippi schools have seen themselves in the top 3 of the BCS/CFP in the last decade. How do you convince yourself, or more importantly high school seniors, that a program with marginal historical success will be able to succeed against that level of competition?

I believe the SEC will lose some of the tradition and identity it has if this expansion takes place. It isn't just expansion, it is this particular expansion. Maybe Greg Sankey is just reading the tea leaves and maybe he knows a lot more than is public right now and he knows that the Big XII is going to be raided so it might as well be the SEC. Who knows. But if the news had leaked that the SEC was looking to expand into 2 new states to widen its footprint and it was accepting a Virginia and a North Carolina school, I'd say bravo. I won't even specify which two, but suffice to say from the ACC. I would have preferences, but that's neither here nor there. To me, that makes sense for the conference membership as a whole. Adding Texas and Oklahoma makes sense for the top half of the league, maybe even less. Followers of this board should know I'm an Alabama fan first who also loves Vanderbilt. This move is probably highly regarded in Tuscaloosa, but I can't be excited about it. To me it looks like the next step toward a complete realignment of college football and a loss of what little charm it had left.
Fair enough. Not sure I agre, but fair enough.

As to your first point, right now in order to be good enough to have a realistic chance of winning the SEC you need to have a realistic chance of winning the National Title. Adding Texas and Oklahoma doesn't change that. It's no harder to beat Alabama, Oklahoma, and LSU than it is to beat Alabama, LSU, and Georgia. I don't think that matters much.

On this, I agree with your statement. As long as the schedule is 8 or 9 games (I believe 9 is and already was coming), it won't matter much until the rotation serves up 3 or 4 of the top 5 teams not only in the league, but the country. That is a secondary concern. My belief is not that the competition will become too tough for some members to have a chance of winning, but that they may soon be edged out of the participation altogether. If it is okay to say a loss of geographic or cultural identity is okay if enough money is offered, then why not sacrifice the traditions of some founding members who are less attractive now than a new suitor? Texas always believed it deserved a bigger piece of the SWC or Big XII pie, so maybe Sankey agrees that the best of the league deserve more. So for the good of the collective, it is deemed time to say goodbye to Vandy, South Carolina, Missouri, and Mississippi/MSU. FSU, Miami, Va. Tech, Clemson, and North Carolina might be happy to cash a bigger $EC check too. If that's where the game is going, I guess nothing will stop it.
Last edited by coachinwaiting on Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by Go Vandy! »

FayetteDore wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:55 am In the separate thread about the Star V helmet, somebody used "ol poot" to describe VU fans who cling to the Star V.

You wanna see Ol Poot?!? I'LL show you Ol Poot!

I'd like to see: The old 10-member SEC back, but wouldn't mind Georgia Tech and Tulane coming back into the fold. The Southwest Conference comprising Texas schools plus Arkansas. The Big Eight stretching across the Great Plains. A Big Ten with TEN (10!) Midwestern teams. An ACC that was primarily Carolina to Maryland.

That's the way it was. AND I LIKED IT! :lol: ;) 8-)

PS -- I like the Star V too!!
It's like baseball "purists". No one wants MLB to go back to 8 teams in each league in their original cities. They want it to go back to the first time they remember it. (1) Not going to happen even if it could. (2) couldn't happen, because: it can't go "back to the way it was" in the '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, AND '90s.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by mathguy »

coachinwaiting wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:32 pm On this, I agree with your statement. As long as the schedule is 8 or 9 games (I believe 9 is and already was coming), it won't matter much until the rotation serves up 3 or 4 of the top 5 teams not only in the league, but the country. That is a secondary concern. My belief is not that the competition will become too tough for some members to have a chance of winning, but that they may soon me edged out of the participation altogether. If it is okay to say a loss of geographic or cultural identity is okay if enough money is offered, then why not sacrifice the traditions of some founding members who are less attractive now than a new suitor? Texas always believed it deserved a bigger piece of the SWC or Big XII pie, so maybe Sankey agrees that the best of the league deserve more. So for the good of the collective, it is deemed time to say goodbye to Vandy, South Carolina, Missouri, and Mississippi/MSU. FSU, Miami, Va. Tech, Clemson, and North Carolina might be happy to cash a bigger $EC check too. If that's where the game is going, I guess nothing will stop it.
I don't see us getting kicked out. Aside from the optics being bad, I'm not sure what the league gains by contraction.

But the tradition/cultural identity ... no, doesn't matter to the league at all. Vandy is a founding member of the SEC? I only know that because people on this board mention it sometimes. Georgia Tech used to be in the SEC? I only know that because people on this board sometimes mention it ... they've haven't been in my lifetime. And while I'm not "old", I'm definitely too old to be young. Occasionally people here throw out the "Vandy to the Big 10" discussion. Some people are horrified. I meet this rumor with a shrug. I don't know why we would do it. But we would go from being a middle of the pack school in a powerhouse athletic league to being ... a middle of the pack school in a powerhouse athletic league. I don't care if we play Michigan and Ohio State instead of Kentucky and Alabama.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by LawoftheWest »

[/quote]

Putting aside from whether Texas will regret this down the road, and further putting aside whether or not you (or anyone else) like this..

Why would it be a mistake for the SEC?

Best case: Texas is elevated by the SEC and becomes a powerhouse program that contends for national titles. Adding more fodder for the "SEC is the best, most dominant league" narrative.

Where does the SEC lose in this? Because traditional SEC fans don't care about this new addition? They'll still tune in to root against a new rival, and in 25 years half of their fans won't even remember Texas is a "new" team...
[/quote]


First, while the addition of Texas to the SEC may be good for the SEC (which may be debatable), it would likely hurt Vandy. Two more powerhouse teams for Vandy to compete against, although not playing them on a regular basis. Texas has ambitions to be the top baseball program in the USA, and they have the coach and resources to achieve that. In other sports Texas wants to be first in the country, such as men's and women's basketball, again making it harder for us to compete.

Next, TV revenue for football is the driving force. That is predicated on the assumption that TV viewing will continue to grow. Yet, we have seen weakening student attendance at many, maybe most, college football games. In recent years younger people have too many alternative entertainment sources, from video games to the proliferation of movie and similar channels. That TV growth just may not be there. Younger people may not want to spend 3+ hours watching lots of commercials, with sports action sprinkled in between. My interest in TV sports has been declining, in large part due to the proliferation of commercials.

Finally, with the addition of two powerhouse football teams, the SEC may no longer be dominant in the playoffs because the leading teams may not have good enough records, having beat up on each other.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by Doreknox »

LawoftheWest wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:43 pm
Finally, with the addition of two powerhouse football teams, the SEC may no longer be dominant in the playoffs because the leading teams may not have good enough records, having beat up on each other.
[/quote]

Do you think TX or OK could run the SEC gauntlet and be 12-0? No way. I don't see OK ever getting any better than they are now and TX isn't as good right now as A&M. In the new SEC, a one or two loss team will likely make the playoffs.

Vanderbilt and the rest of their little SEC siblings can sit back and earn another $25 million or so in conference revenue watching the newcomers give their butts kicked in football. TX basketball is going to be great. VU, UF, AR and LSU can complete toe to toe with TX baseball. All is not as lost as you think.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by Doreknox »

MrMemorial wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:34 pm
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:26 pm

I've actually had to explain to people WHO LIVE IN CLEVELAND what "the Guardians" means there.**

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I hope Cleveland paid a lot of money to that ten year old who designed their new logo.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by LawoftheWest »

[/quote]

Do you think TX or OK could run the SEC gauntlet and be 12-0? No way. I don't see OK ever getting any better than they are now and TX isn't as good right now as A&M. In the new SEC, a one or two loss team will likely make the playoffs.

Vanderbilt and the rest of their little SEC siblings can sit back and earn another $25 million or so in conference revenue watching the newcomers give their butts kicked in football. TX basketball is going to be great. VU, UF, AR and LSU can complete toe to toe with TX baseball. All is not as lost as you think.
[/quote]


I live about 30 miles north of Austin and am sick of the arrogance of Univ. of Texas. They think it is their God-given right to be better than everyone else. Unfortunately, they have the resources to pursue that. I do not like them, at all. Oh, I am not a native Texan. Such arrogance appears in many natives.

I did not suggest that either TX or OK could be 12-0. On the contrary, I think they will be contenders, probably with the SEC winner having two or more losses. They will not have their butts kicked in football, IMO. OK is too good. In the past TX has made poor coaching choices. Maybe Sark is finally the answer. There are certainly many very good high school football players in Texas, as it is close to a religion in many towns. A&M has started shifting recruiting their way. TX wants to get a bigger piece of the pie, which being in the SEC will allow them to do. Out of state schools, such as Ohio State, have been poaching high school players from Texas.

As to baseball, TX has a relatively new coach who is a strong recruiter and coach. This year they came close to the College World Series Finals. While high school baseball in the State of Texas is not revered like football, there are many good high school players for him to recruit.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by coachinwaiting »

mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:04 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:32 pm On this, I agree with your statement. As long as the schedule is 8 or 9 games (I believe 9 is and already was coming), it won't matter much until the rotation serves up 3 or 4 of the top 5 teams not only in the league, but the country. That is a secondary concern. My belief is not that the competition will become too tough for some members to have a chance of winning, but that they may soon me edged out of the participation altogether. If it is okay to say a loss of geographic or cultural identity is okay if enough money is offered, then why not sacrifice the traditions of some founding members who are less attractive now than a new suitor? Texas always believed it deserved a bigger piece of the SWC or Big XII pie, so maybe Sankey agrees that the best of the league deserve more. So for the good of the collective, it is deemed time to say goodbye to Vandy, South Carolina, Missouri, and Mississippi/MSU. FSU, Miami, Va. Tech, Clemson, and North Carolina might be happy to cash a bigger $EC check too. If that's where the game is going, I guess nothing will stop it.
I don't see us getting kicked out. Aside from the optics being bad, I'm not sure what the league gains by contraction.

But the tradition/cultural identity ... no, doesn't matter to the league at all. Vandy is a founding member of the SEC? I only know that because people on this board mention it sometimes. Georgia Tech used to be in the SEC? I only know that because people on this board sometimes mention it ... they've haven't been in my lifetime. And while I'm not "old", I'm definitely too old to be young. Occasionally people here throw out the "Vandy to the Big 10" discussion. Some people are horrified. I meet this rumor with a shrug. I don't know why we would do it. But we would go from being a middle of the pack school in a powerhouse athletic league to being ... a middle of the pack school in a powerhouse athletic league. I don't care if we play Michigan and Ohio State instead of Kentucky and Alabama.
I'm not predicting Vanderbilt or anyone would be "kicked out", per se. But, with the evolution of college football as we are seeing it, We may see a total reformation of the conference structure. The "SEC", "B1G", "ACC", and "PACxx" as we know them may cease to exist. I guess if that happens, nothing that occurs here will matter anyway.
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Re: TEXAS & OKLAHOMA INQUIRING ABOUT JOINING THE SEC?!?!?

Post by docdore »

MrMemorial wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:34 pm
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:18 pm
coachinwaiting wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:26 pm

It's my opinion ONLY, but I don't think it will be the final incarnation of the league. If the 11 required votes are secured (if that is indeed the number), I think it signals that there are more than a few programs who are throwing in the towel on competitive football for a much bigger check. They appear to be accepting the Washington Generals role as perennial losers and whipping boys to the blue blood members of the league. Maybe the fan base of the league will increase initially, but will the fans remain engaged at the schools where their prospects are essentially nil? I understand that exists to a point now, but even the two Mississippi schools have seen themselves in the top 3 of the BCS/CFP in the last decade. How do you convince yourself, or more importantly high school seniors, that a program with marginal historical success will be able to succeed against that level of competition?

I believe the SEC will lose some of the tradition and identity it has if this expansion takes place. It isn't just expansion, it is this particular expansion. Maybe Greg Sankey is just reading the tea leaves and maybe he knows a lot more than is public right now and he knows that the Big XII is going to be raided so it might as well be the SEC. Who knows. But if the news had leaked that the SEC was looking to expand into 2 new states to widen its footprint and it was accepting a Virginia and a North Carolina school, I'd say bravo. I won't even specify which two, but suffice to say from the ACC. I would have preferences, but that's neither here nor there. To me, that makes sense for the conference membership as a whole. Adding Texas and Oklahoma makes sense for the top half of the league, maybe even less. Followers of this board should know I'm an Alabama fan first who also loves Vanderbilt. This move is probably highly regarded in Tuscaloosa, but I can't be excited about it. To me it looks like the next step toward a complete realignment of college football and a loss of what little charm it had left.
Fair enough. Not sure I agre, but fair enough.

As to your first point, right now in order to be good enough to have a realistic chance of winning the SEC you need to have a realistic chance of winning the National Title. Adding Texas and Oklahoma doesn't change that. It's no harder to beat Alabama, Oklahoma, and LSU than it is to beat Alabama, LSU, and Georgia. I don't think that matters much.

Regarding your second point, I don't think you are wrong, but I think your argument is a personal opinion and not a business decision.Yes, adding Texas and Oklahoma does make the SEC less of an actual "southeastern" conference ... but I promise you that is, at best, 38th on Greg Sankey's priority list. This may cost us some charm ... but it makes a whole lotta cash!

Finally, I think you are right, that it is the next step toward the complete realignment of college football. It is coming. Following this, I am wondering if the Big 12 will be defunct in a few years. Shoot, CBSSports had an article about the likely conferences for the remaining Big 12 teams to jump to.
In sports, do names matter all that much? How much "jazz" is in Utah? How tropical is Flint, MI?

I've actually had to explain to people WHO LIVE IN CLEVELAND what "the Guardians" means there.**

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so what does "the guardians" mean in cleveland?
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