Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

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BrentVU
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Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

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alathIN
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

Post by alathIN »

This may not be an Earth-shattering revelation, but there was something - or several things - horribly wrong with the VU offense the year Neal was here and I just can't believe that Neal himself was the biggest problem.

I had seen him play at Ball State, including a game against Notre Dame, and he looked pretty good. I did not see him make a lot of deep throws, but he was quite capable of getting the ball to a receiver with good accuracy and timing and making positive plays with his legs when the receivers were covered.
Now of course he has not exactly been an NFL success, but he's close enough to keep getting free agent looks, hanging around on practice squads, etc... about the same as Kyle Shurmur's NFL experience.

But that one year at VU he was totally and completely ineffective.
People said he was playing shell-shocked behind VU's offensive line... but dude, he was quite effective playing behind freaking Ball State's offensive line.

Some of this has to be on the coaching/schemes etc.
Sure, Neal was never going to be all-SEC or a first round draft pick. His career has been that of a decent mid-grade QB - a game manager with good completion/interception numbers and good legs - except that one year at Vanderbilt.
My guess is that his one really bad year was attributable 20% Neal himself, 20% O-line, 60% coaching/scheme.

With a decent game-manager QB with good legs, plus Vaughan, Lipscomb, and Pinckney, and an effective scheme and play calling, we should have had at least a competent mid-tier SEC offense. There's no excuse for that group being one of the worst offenses in college football.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

Post by BrentVU »

alathIN wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 8:39 am My guess is that his one really bad year was attributable 20% Neal himself, 20% O-line, 60% coaching/scheme.

With a decent game-manager QB with good legs, plus Vaughan, Lipscomb, and Pinckney, and an effective scheme and play calling, we should have had at least a competent mid-tier SEC offense. There's no excuse for that group being one of the worst offenses in college football.
I totally concur with this. 2019 was the year Derek Mason promoted Gerry Gdowski into the OC role, and without going into too much detail, the Peter Principle applied. At the end of the season, Mason was forced to fire Gdowski (the relationship went back many years) in order to keep his job.

But to your point: Neal has some skills as a QB. We did see flashes of it in 2019, just not nearly enough of it. He has the frame. Does he have the skills to earn a spot on an NFL roster? I'd say the odds are against him, but I am very happy to see him get a shot.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

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There was a comment elsewhere that the CCL staff spent much of the spring working with the QB's on footwork. And the report went on to say the "previous staff" had not done any footwork drills with the QB's. And THAT is part of the reason all 3 QB's looked at least decent during the Spring Game. Supposedly.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

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Seadog73 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm There was a comment elsewhere that the CCL staff spent much of the spring working with the QB's on footwork. And the report went on to say the "previous staff" had not done any footwork drills with the QB's. And THAT is part of the reason all 3 QB's looked at least decent during the Spring Game. Supposedly.
That is astonishing.

It's hard to believe Ludwig would not have recognized the importance of footwork - maybe it got dropped in the transition? Of course he's not the previous staff, but the previous to the previous to the previous staff.
It would explain why Kyle Shurmur was successful - he's been extremely well coached since he was a toddler and would certainly have come in to the program with good footwork.
It would also go a long way to explaining why QB prospects who should have been at least semi-decent - like Walters and Wallace - turned out to be busts.

"Attention to detail" does in retrospect seem to have been a shortcoming of the previous regime.
I think xCDM was really good at his relationships with the players and he certainly inspired them on the emotional level. And maybe there was relative success in the Ludwig years because he brought some attention to detail - that does seem like his personality.
No head coach is perfect in every way - everyone has shortcomings - but my guess is that the most successful coaches are the ones that know where their shortcomings are and specifically look for assistants who are strong in those areas.
I had a bad feeling when CDM said that he and Jason Tarver thought exactly the same and "completed each others' sentences." That's not what you need in your immediate subordinate. "He thinks of things I don't think of" would have been much more promising.

From early impressions I do think CCL has strong attention to detail, and self-awareness to know what kinds of personalities he needs to complement his own and fill in the gaps.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

Post by Doreknox »

In Gdowsky's offense, a Manning would have been rendered ineffective. Neal never had a chance.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

Post by vandy05 »

alathIN wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:09 pm
Seadog73 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm There was a comment elsewhere that the CCL staff spent much of the spring working with the QB's on footwork. And the report went on to say the "previous staff" had not done any footwork drills with the QB's. And THAT is part of the reason all 3 QB's looked at least decent during the Spring Game. Supposedly.
That is astonishing.

It's hard to believe Ludwig would not have recognized the importance of footwork - maybe it got dropped in the transition? Of course he's not the previous staff, but the previous to the previous to the previous staff.
It would explain why Kyle Shurmur was successful - he's been extremely well coached since he was a toddler and would certainly have come in to the program with good footwork.
It would also go a long way to explaining why QB prospects who should have been at least semi-decent - like Walters and Wallace - turned out to be busts.

"Attention to detail" does in retrospect seem to have been a shortcoming of the previous regime.
I think xCDM was really good at his relationships with the players and he certainly inspired them on the emotional level. And maybe there was relative success in the Ludwig years because he brought some attention to detail - that does seem like his personality.
No head coach is perfect in every way - everyone has shortcomings - but my guess is that the most successful coaches are the ones that know where their shortcomings are and specifically look for assistants who are strong in those areas.
I had a bad feeling when CDM said that he and Jason Tarver thought exactly the same and "completed each others' sentences." That's not what you need in your immediate subordinate. "He thinks of things I don't think of" would have been much more promising.

From early impressions I do think CCL has strong attention to detail, and self-awareness to know what kinds of personalities he needs to complement his own and fill in the gaps.
That's so astonishing that I would venture a guess that its probably not even true. You literally can't practice in football without practicing footwork. Now to be fair, there are varying degrees of that, but I'm sure they worked on it. But maybe CCL and crew are better, more efficient, more thorough, spend more time, etc.

Now from a scheme perspective, I think there is no getting around the idea that something was missing and that really hurt Neal.
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Re: Riley Neal working out with Cleveland Browns

Post by VandyPhile »

vandy05 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 11:03 am
alathIN wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:09 pm
Seadog73 wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 5:20 pm There was a comment elsewhere that the CCL staff spent much of the spring working with the QB's on footwork. And the report went on to say the "previous staff" had not done any footwork drills with the QB's. And THAT is part of the reason all 3 QB's looked at least decent during the Spring Game. Supposedly.
That is astonishing.

It's hard to believe Ludwig would not have recognized the importance of footwork - maybe it got dropped in the transition? Of course he's not the previous staff, but the previous to the previous to the previous staff.
It would explain why Kyle Shurmur was successful - he's been extremely well coached since he was a toddler and would certainly have come in to the program with good footwork.
It would also go a long way to explaining why QB prospects who should have been at least semi-decent - like Walters and Wallace - turned out to be busts.

"Attention to detail" does in retrospect seem to have been a shortcoming of the previous regime.
I think xCDM was really good at his relationships with the players and he certainly inspired them on the emotional level. And maybe there was relative success in the Ludwig years because he brought some attention to detail - that does seem like his personality.
No head coach is perfect in every way - everyone has shortcomings - but my guess is that the most successful coaches are the ones that know where their shortcomings are and specifically look for assistants who are strong in those areas.
I had a bad feeling when CDM said that he and Jason Tarver thought exactly the same and "completed each others' sentences." That's not what you need in your immediate subordinate. "He thinks of things I don't think of" would have been much more promising.

From early impressions I do think CCL has strong attention to detail, and self-awareness to know what kinds of personalities he needs to complement his own and fill in the gaps.
That's so astonishing that I would venture a guess that its probably not even true. You literally can't practice in football without practicing footwork. Now to be fair, there are varying degrees of that, but I'm sure they worked on it. But maybe CCL and crew are better, more efficient, more thorough, spend more time, etc.

Now from a scheme perspective, I think there is no getting around the idea that something was missing and that really hurt Neal.
Perhaps what was missing was any variance from the “run up the middle, run up the middle, pass, punt” game plan.
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