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Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

For discussion regarding the Vanderbilt Commodores' football program.

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Golddore68
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Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Golddore68 » Tue May 14, 2019 10:00 pm

As far as Vanderbilt quarterbacks, Kyle Shurmur was on the same level as Jay Cutler. Both set several passing records at Vanderbilt in their careers. Both had wins over UT in their careers. Both led Vanderbilt to bowl games.

You could make the argument that Shurmur was better than Cutler in some ways. Shurmur had better arm strength. Shurmur had more touchdown passes. Shurmur also had worked with professional quarterbacks in his career (Cutler didn’t so far as I know). Shurmur’s dad is an NFL coach.

Cutler was a first-round draft pick of the Denver Broncos (who traded up in the draft to get to pick him).

But Shurmur didn’t get drafted.

Why?

Considering that the New York Giants (which is coached by Shurmur’s father) drafted Duke’s quarterback in the first round — which stunned the TV NFL analysts, some of them had never heard of the guy — I was surprised no one picked Shurmur when Cutler was a first-round pick.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Good2BGold » Tue May 14, 2019 10:11 pm

Shurmur most definitely did not have better arm strength. In fact, that, along with lack of mobility, is why he wasn't drafted. Cutler, on the other hand, had a cannon for an arm and good mobility.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by BILTMORE » Tue May 14, 2019 10:14 pm

Shurmur has a stronger arm?
Um no.

Cutler was a physical marvel heading into the draft.
He led all qbs in the bench by a mile, and his arm strength had all scouts incorrectly assuming that he’d been a high school pitcher. He also could run circles around shurmur. Cutler is widely believed to have one of the most potent nfl arms maybe ever.

The reason shurmur didnt get drafted is his lack of arm strength and lack of mobility. Many scouts cited his poor long ball and tendency to check down as knocks.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Johnmn555 » Tue May 14, 2019 11:38 pm

Cutler played for far worse teams. Until Bennett came around in his senior year, he did not really have anyone to throw to. Even then it was all pretty much telegraphed to Bennett as there really was no one else. Cutler was very good at throwing while rolling out of the pocket and could do things next to no college QBs can do, like launch rockets across his body. Can you imagine Cutler in his senior year if he had the likes of K. Vaughn as a running threat? With all of out problems now, it's easy to forget how thin the talent was by comparison during the whole CBJ era.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by HopsLikeHolwerda » Wed May 15, 2019 9:34 am

As stated, Cutler's arm is one of the strongest, not just in Vandy history, but in NFL history. That's not a stretch. He was also a physical specimen with lots of upside and athleticism. He was in the same draft as Vince Young and many argued that he was a better athlete than Young. The video below shows some football highlights, but it includes some basketball highlights. As far as pure athletes, Jay was one of the most gifted individuals to ever attend Vandy, in any sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3mil8E0DWQ

Now as to the question of Shurmur, it's pretty simple. He lacks "upside". Kyle is a methodical, smart QB with an average arm and average accuracy. But he's almost undoubtedly already at his ceiling in terms of athletic ability. In short, "he is what he is", and that's a good college QB. Good college QBs, typically, don't last long in the NFL. He could be very good in the CFL.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Good2BGold » Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 am

HopsLikeHolwerda wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:34 am
As stated, Cutler's arm is one of the strongest, not just in Vandy history, but in NFL history. That's not a stretch. He was also a physical specimen with lots of upside and athleticism. He was in the same draft as Vince Young and many argued that he was a better athlete than Young. The video below shows some football highlights, but it includes some basketball highlights. As far as pure athletes, Jay was one of the most gifted individuals to ever attend Vandy, in any sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3mil8E0DWQ

Now as to the question of Shurmur, it's pretty simple. He lacks "upside". Kyle is a methodical, smart QB with an average arm and average accuracy. But he's almost undoubtedly already at his ceiling in terms of athletic ability. In short, "he is what he is", and that's a good college QB. Good college QBs, typically, don't last long in the NFL. He could be very good in the CFL.
At the time of that draft, it was reported Floyd Reece wanted to draft Cutler and Fisher and offensive coordinator Norm Chow wanted to draft Matt Leinart, their USC home boy. Since that time, there has been some revisionist history by Fisher claiming he wanted to draft Cutler. At the time, word around the team was he wanted Leinart, Reece wanted Cutler, but Bud wanted VY.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by BILTMORE » Wed May 15, 2019 11:40 am

OMG that basketball highlight reel is hilarious.
It just consists of 12 dunks.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by JWCommodore » Wed May 15, 2019 11:44 am

Arm strength is perhaps the most overrated Quarterback attribute of all time. "That guys got a CANNON for an arm!" people get so hyped and excited about it, really...a "cannon" - who cares? Sure, it's impressive, wow-wee, but here's the thing, ALL OF THESE guys can throw the football just fine. Give me the guy with the highest completion percentage and who is the smartest over the guy with the "cannon" every time.

The Shurminator didn't get drafted because he's not very mobile. I believe he has a decent chance to make a roster somewhere because he is a smart, hard working kid, coaches son and all that, a ton of experience in terms of like 35 starts in College, and nice numbers (completion percentage being the most important)

What he is and will always be is a Vanderbilt legend who absolutely torched our most hated rival every time he took the field.

What is basically comes down to is pure dumb luck. How a QB will turn out in the NFL is one of the most notoriously difficult things to predict in all of sports. I think being in the right place and the right time in the right system has more to do with it than almost anything. Of all the QB's drafted or not drafted, who's going to end up in the Hall of Fame one day, who's going to have a long career, who's going to be a career back up, who's going to get blackballed by the league for being a social justice warrior, who's going to be a bust because they're a basket case or they've got a substance abuse problem, It's a safe bet that NOBODY has a clue.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by vandy05 » Wed May 15, 2019 12:01 pm

JWCommodore wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:44 am
Arm strength is perhaps the most overrated Quarterback attribute of all time. "That guys got a CANNON for an arm!" people get so hyped and excited about it, really...a "cannon" - who cares? Sure, it's impressive, wow-wee, but here's the thing, ALL OF THESE guys can throw the football just fine. Give me the guy with the highest completion percentage and who is the smartest over the guy with the "cannon" every time.

The Shurminator didn't get drafted because he's not very mobile. I believe he has a decent chance to make a roster somewhere because he is a smart, hard working kid, coaches son and all that, a ton of experience in terms of like 35 starts in College, and nice numbers (completion percentage being the most important)

What he is and will always be is a Vanderbilt legend who absolutely torched our most hated rival every time he took the field.

What is basically comes down to is pure dumb luck. How a QB will turn out in the NFL is one of the most notoriously difficult things to predict in all of sports. I think being in the right place and the right time in the right system has more to do with it than almost anything. Of all the QB's drafted or not drafted, who's going to end up in the Hall of Fame one day, It's a safe bet that NOBODY has a clue.
I would have to strongly disagree with about half of this. Arm strength is a requirement to be successful in the NFL because the windows are so tight. There is definitely a range in the league, but you have to have a certain baseline and I don't think Kyle is really there. Highest completion percentage is also not a good indicator because you could be checking the ball down a lot (which Kyle did).

The game has changed in the last few years so shorter passes are becoming a bigger part of the game, but you still need to get the ball into those windows.

Now, Kyle will always be beloved by me for his ability to win over UT during his career. Just awesome. I do think you're right that its hard to predict who will be great or not, but you have to start somewhere.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by alathIN » Wed May 15, 2019 1:03 pm

Shurmur was operating pretty near his ceiling for his Junior and Senior seasons. He had better teams around him. Still of course one of the all time great VU QBs.

I'm not sure Cutler ever got near his ceiling. John Madden once did some stop motion looks at Cutler vs other QBs throws. It was pretty amazing. He was never on any really good team, and his confidence that he could get the ball anywhere he wanted any time he wanted got him into trouble.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by HopsLikeHolwerda » Wed May 15, 2019 1:04 pm

Good2BGold wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 am

At the time of that draft, it was reported Floyd Reece wanted to draft Cutler and Fisher and offensive coordinator Norm Chow wanted to draft Matt Leinart, their USC home boy. Since that time, there has been some revisionist history by Fisher claiming he wanted to draft Cutler. At the time, word around the team was he wanted Leinart, Reece wanted Cutler, but Bud wanted VY.
Norm Chow might have wanted Matt Leinart, but nobody else in the building did. What is for certain is that Floyd Reese has never met a Vanderbilt player he likes or would have drafted. He's made that clear on his show multiple times. I'm not sure where the animosity stems from, but it is definitely there.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by HopsLikeHolwerda » Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 pm

JWCommodore wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:44 am
Give me the guy with the highest completion percentage and who is the smartest over the guy with the "cannon" every time.
Danny Wuerffel over Brett Favre? You choose Wuerffel, got it. I'll take Favre.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Good2BGold » Wed May 15, 2019 2:18 pm

HopsLikeHolwerda wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:04 pm
Good2BGold wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:16 am

At the time of that draft, it was reported Floyd Reece wanted to draft Cutler and Fisher and offensive coordinator Norm Chow wanted to draft Matt Leinart, their USC home boy. Since that time, there has been some revisionist history by Fisher claiming he wanted to draft Cutler. At the time, word around the team was he wanted Leinart, Reece wanted Cutler, but Bud wanted VY.
Norm Chow might have wanted Matt Leinart, but nobody else in the building did. What is for certain is that Floyd Reese has never met a Vanderbilt player he likes or would have drafted. He's made that clear on his show multiple times. I'm not sure where the animosity stems from, but it is definitely there.
Per Paul Kuharsky, who was the Titans beat writer for The Tennessean at the time, Reese wanted Cutler:

As Bud Adams declared VY his guy, Jeff Fisher said he and Floyd Reese liked Jay Cutler in 2006
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Titans309fan » Wed May 15, 2019 2:49 pm

PK was never the Tennessean beat writer. Jim Wyatt was. PK was covering the Titans for ESPN.com for quite a while.

I still have doubts that Fisher and Reese wanted Cutler at the time, though it is perfectly clear that Bud Adams wanted BCS Championship winner and Houston product Vince Young on the Titans. VY's last year in college was one of the most amazing by a QB, so I certainly understand the decision.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by JCVandyman » Wed May 15, 2019 3:49 pm

Maybe semantics in that PK was never the designated "beat writer," but he most certainly did cover the Titans and the NFL for the Tennessean for many years, including 2006 when that draft happened. He was even the guy that covered the team for the Tennessean while they were still in Houston.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Good2BGold » Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm

Titans309fan wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:49 pm
PK was never the Tennessean beat writer. Jim Wyatt was. PK was covering the Titans for ESPN.com for quite a while.

I still have doubts that Fisher and Reese wanted Cutler at the time, though it is perfectly clear that Bud Adams wanted BCS Championship winner and Houston product Vince Young on the Titans. VY's last year in college was one of the most amazing by a QB, so I certainly understand the decision.
According to The Tennessean itself, Kaharsky was the Titans beat writer at one point. That would have been before Wyatt. He is described as such in the last paragraph of this story:

Heated Kuharsky-Bishop exchange boils over on sports radio
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Commodoredave » Thu May 16, 2019 8:18 am

If the Titans had drafted Cutler, it just would have meant the Tennessean would have had a decade worth of trash thrown at his performances.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by Titans309fan » Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 am

Good2BGold wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 4:41 pm
Titans309fan wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:49 pm
PK was never the Tennessean beat writer. Jim Wyatt was. PK was covering the Titans for ESPN.com for quite a while.

I still have doubts that Fisher and Reese wanted Cutler at the time, though it is perfectly clear that Bud Adams wanted BCS Championship winner and Houston product Vince Young on the Titans. VY's last year in college was one of the most amazing by a QB, so I certainly understand the decision.
According to The Tennessean itself, Kaharsky was the Titans beat writer at one point. That would have been before Wyatt. He is described as such in the last paragraph of this story:

Heated Kuharsky-Bishop exchange boils over on sports radio
Gotcha. I honestly don't remember those days, and Wyatt was such a good beat reporter. Wyatt and his family are big Vandy supporters as well.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by JWCommodore » Thu May 16, 2019 2:28 pm

HopsLikeHolwerda wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:24 pm
JWCommodore wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 11:44 am
Give me the guy with the highest completion percentage and who is the smartest over the guy with the "cannon" every time.
Danny Wuerffel over Brett Favre? You choose Wuerffel, got it. I'll take Favre.
Why not somebody like....Jeff George over say...Andrew Luck? Who you got there? The cannon arm or the smart guy? How about you take David Klingler? Dude had a ROCKET! JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf, pretty impressive arms, no?

I mean sure, great comparison with Favre and Wuerffel always a smart move to pull out an NFL Hall of Famer over a Heisman winning NFL bust to make your point. Well since we're gonna go that route I'll take Peyton or Brady over the stronger armed Favre. I'll wager they both had significantly higher completion % and Wonderlic scores over him coming out of college.



Bonus observation: Vandymaniacs really like to beat the dead horse of the Titans not drafting Cutler.
Last edited by JWCommodore on Thu May 16, 2019 3:59 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Why didn’t Shurmur get drafted?

Post by JWCommodore » Thu May 16, 2019 2:50 pm

vandy05 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 12:01 pm
Arm strength is a requirement to be successful in the NFL because the windows are so tight. There is definitely a range in the league, but you have to have a certain baseline
I wouldn't argue with that at all. My point is that I just think that everyone goes all ga-ga over arm strength because it is one of the more visible "sexy" attributes. To me there's a huge range of variables that go into making a successful NFL quarterback, and it is often EXTREMELY difficult to predict who will be successful and who won't. Heck, mobility and footwork is probably somewhat overrated, there's plenty of guys who are "mobility challanged" like Kyle that have done fine in the league, but it depends on what team they're on and system they are playing in. I mean, you watch any of the combine or college pro days or whatever and you're like, "Dang, all these guys look good." And there's all these scouts out there with their clipboards and stopwatches making evaluations, it's just crazy. I think success has much more to do with simply being prepared as best you can and being in the right place at the right time when opportunity knocks, meaning it's less about natural ability and God given talent than hard work and being fortunate.
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