OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

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commadore
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by commadore »

dcdore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:20 pm I agree that, from what I've read and seen, Miller did nothing illegal.
However, the handling of the entire situation by the coaching staff and admin has left me with a bad taste with respect to the culture of Bama basketball.
With that I totally agree. I have argued with bammers here that Miller should have been suspended until the facts were determined. And Oats was highly insensitive by saying to the press early on (way before the facts were fully known) the it was just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I would have suspended him for being at a bar at 2:00 am.


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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by doubledore9603 »

Oats and the administration are downright shameful at this point. Revelations of more players at the scene of the crime and we are supposed to act like this is no big deal?
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by OldDude »

commadore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:11 pm
OldDude wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:08 am
commadore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:02 am

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Not worried about casting stones, it's firing rounds that concern me. Look, this is serious stuff and platitudes only serve to sweep it under a rug. I did some pretty supid things as a kid/ young man, but transporting a gun? Come on !
Police reports indicate he didn't know there was a gun in the back seat, covered by a coat. Also, no evidence to say he read the email until after he got there. I am not saying the kid exercised good judgement, he didn't. But I am saying other than bad judgement, there is absolutely no evidence that he did anything wrong.
Of course he didn't know there WAS A GUN in the back seat of HIS car covered by a coat (how did he know it was covered by a coat if he didn't know it was there ?); after all that is what he told the police so it must be factual.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by Obvious »

I was reading over the thread again and I think we all acknowledge that Miller played a role. There’s no disputing that. I think the main criticism is that this has been handled poorly. Don’t understand the fighting or suggesting some of us are not smart lol. I’m not at liberty to charge Miller or know enough if he can be charged. It all reflects poorly on the program when information keeps spilling out that adds players to the crime scene and how much they knew or didn’t know.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by charlestonalum »

commadore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 12:11 pm
OldDude wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 11:08 am
commadore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:02 am

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Not worried about casting stones, it's firing rounds that concern me. Look, this is serious stuff and platitudes only serve to sweep it under a rug. I did some pretty supid things as a kid/ young man, but transporting a gun? Come on !
Police reports indicate he didn't know there was a gun in the back seat, covered by a coat. Also, no evidence to say he read the email until after he got there. I am not saying the kid exercised good judgement, he didn't. But I am saying other than bad judgement, there is absolutely no evidence that he did anything wrong.
At risk of paraphrasing poorly Pres. Clinton:" it depends on what the meaning of wrong is:" He did drive his car that cotained and provided the murderer with the murder weapon - to many people that was a wrong thing to do since a mother was killed leaving a new orphan. So some see that as wrong and I suppose some choose to not call that wrong because he claims he didn't know he transported the weapon. If such a tragedy were to befall VU ( like the rape) I like to think VU would handle it differently than Bama has.

BEAT MICHIGAN.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by commadore »

All I know is that if I was a criminal defense attorney (I am not, I am a tax attorney), I would take Miller's case in a heartbeat and it would never result in charges.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by alathIN »

utahozzie wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:42 am In the old days coaches would discipline players for exercising poor judgment. Guess those days are over

Heck lance goulbirne got 4 games for a parking pass. Guess he’d have gotten the needle for doing what Brandon miller did.
For the most part, Vanderbilt coaches have had a pretty firm handle on player behavior and haven't been shy to impose discipline when needed.
Coach Lea sat his second best running back for a third of the season and booted a talented freshman off the team. We don't know exactly what they did, but since the police weren't involved, I'll go way out on a limb and speculate that it was a less serious offense than murder.
Stallings was known for this; the Goulborne example and another time I remember a guard kicked off the team reportedly for weed. In an over-the-top example, Stallings threatened to kill a player for a lapse of sportsmanship after a win (as I recall, he did not actually kill the player).
For gosh sakes, Stackhouse sat one of his best players because he didn't appear appropriately serious in practice after a loss. I can't imagine Stack's reaction if one of his players was involved in a murder, and if I were the player, I might be more afraid of what Stackhouse would do to me than what the criminal justice system would do.
Corbin of course takes discipline to a new level. The Vandy Boys know there will be immediate consequences if they're 10 seconds late to practice or if they neglect to log their fluid intake when practicing in hot weather.

It is of course upsetting when a player has to sit for a game (or leave the program forever) but ultimately knowing we will not see a national embarrassment starring on our team is one of the reasons why I'm a Vanderbilt fan.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by charlestonalum »

commadore wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:12 pm All I know is that if I was a criminal defense attorney (I am not, I am a tax attorney), I would take Miller's case in a heartbeat and it would never result in charges.
There is a huge difference often between doing something wrong and breaking the law. Nobody is claiming he broke the law and needs a criminal defense attorney. Sorry for all concerned: a most preventable problem if parties had done the right thing.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by Foreverhopeful »

Remember Eric McClellan and stealing the Nordstrom shirts? He was gone immediately.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by Foreverhopeful »

alathIN wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 2:15 pm
utahozzie wrote: Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:42 am In the old days coaches would discipline players for exercising poor judgment. Guess those days are over

Heck lance goulbirne got 4 games for a parking pass. Guess he’d have gotten the needle for doing what Brandon miller did.
For the most part, Vanderbilt coaches have had a pretty firm handle on player behavior and haven't been shy to impose discipline when needed.
Coach Lea sat his second best running back for a third of the season and booted a talented freshman off the team. We don't know exactly what they did, but since the police weren't involved, I'll go way out on a limb and speculate that it was a less serious offense than murder.
Stallings was known for this; the Goulborne example and another time I remember a guard kicked off the team reportedly for weed. In an over-the-top example, Stallings threatened to kill a player for a lapse of sportsmanship after a win (as I recall, he did not actually kill the player).
For gosh sakes, Stackhouse sat one of his best players because he didn't appear appropriately serious in practice after a loss. I can't imagine Stack's reaction if one of his players was involved in a murder, and if I were the player, I might be more afraid of what Stackhouse would do to me than what the criminal justice system would do.
Corbin of course takes discipline to a new level. The Vandy Boys know there will be immediate consequences if they're 10 seconds late to practice or if they neglect to log their fluid intake when practicing in hot weather.

It is of course upsetting when a player has to sit for a game (or leave the program forever) but ultimately knowing we will not see a national embarrassment starring on our team is one of the reasons why I'm a Vanderbilt fan.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by FayetteDore »

Back to the OP...

UA Athletics says the report that a fourth player, Kai Spears, "was present at the time of the incident...is untrue."

The full statement is here:
https://twitter.com/UA_Athletics/status ... 24740?s=20

Time will tell I supposed.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by vandy05 »

I'm really confused. It does seem like the facts of the case are that Miller didn't know the gun was there and didn't know that his teammate had requested it from him. If the Bama administration were able to get that information relatively quickly, and the kid hasn't been charged, what exactly would folks posit the people at Alabama do? Suspend him indefinitely until the charged player is tried?

Don't underestimate the athletic department's ability to get the information they need in order to make a decision. Frankly, I am still not seeing that the kid did anything wrong, and definitely didn't break the law. Driving around to meet a friend and pick them up at the end of the night seems to be what he did.

If that was my son and the school sat him down I would be absolutely livid. Sounds like he wasn't "at a bar" at 2am. He was going to pick up a teammate who had been at the bard. And if he was indeed at the bar at 2am, who cares? He is a college student. You'd have to suspend 90% of all athletes if you want to suspend players who stay out late on the weekend.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by jpmando »

Have we forgotten that we are discussing being at the scene of a murder? The lady is DEAD.

Suppying a gun used in the murder? And no consequences from the University? You cannot be serious
about that.

Seeing the reality of "win at all costs" is pretty shocking.

And I believe our ex-pres Bill actually said it " depends on on what the meaning of the word IS is". Even better.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by commadore »

jpmando wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 9:47 pm Have we forgotten that we are discussing being at the scene of a murder? The lady is DEAD.

Suppying a gun used in the murder? And no consequences from the University? You cannot be serious
about that.

Seeing the reality of "win at all costs" is pretty shocking.

And I believe our ex-pres Bill actually said it " depends on on what the meaning of the word IS is". Even better.
Once again, you are making up "facts."
i suppose had he bought the gun that day you would say the gun shop was wrong and had "supplied" the gun.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by charlestonalum »

Quick question: when I was in college during the season vsrsity athletes "bedchecks" enforcing strict training rules and curfews were in place at all schools- are there no rules now on things like late night soirees?
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by FayetteDore »

And "co-eds" had to be back in their dorms by 11 pm.

Why, it musta been a hunnard years ago! :lol: 8-)
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by Obvious »

charlestonalum wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:14 am Quick question: when I was in college during the season vsrsity athletes "bedchecks" enforcing strict training rules and curfews were in place at all schools- are there no rules now on things like late night soirees?
Something like that would be have to be implemented by the head coach. I remember Charlie Strong at Texas requiring all of his players sit in the front two rows of the class and dress professionally. His staff went by the classes and took attendance. I liked what he was trying to do but his tenure didn’t last very long.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by Obvious »

I could see Tim Corbin doing something like bedchecks
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by charlestonalum »

I bet Cirbin does demand that "boys" folllow rules as does Lea and Stack. Discipline is needed. Will be interesting to see how Bama fares- so far so good for them, but we will see.
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Re: OT - NYT: A Fourth Alabama Player Was at a Deadly Shooting, in a Car Hit by Bullets

Post by vandy05 »

If bed checks happened in the past, they are definitely a thing of the distant past. No one has bed checks for players during the season. Football has them for players on the night before a game when they're in a hotel and can manage it. But if you have players off campus, in different dormitories, etc. I'm not quite sure how you actually enforce bed checks. Maybe 50 years ago you could, but not these days.
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