You must live up north.alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:54 am I don't think racism is the primary driver here, but I don't have a hard time believing it's a factor for some people. Even when he was hired there were rumblings about "affirmative action hire."
I went to Vanderbilt in the 80s and saw a fair amount of overt racism from my peers. It was not the majority of the Vanderbilt community, but it was certainly an element. Do we really think that has been completely eradicated?
I think we was white people can have a blind spot about this. "I'm not racist, so racism isn't a thing any more."
A black doctor I work with can't go for a run in his own neighborhood without someone calling the police about "a black man running away." He's literally been stopped by police for running in his own neighborhood.
Personally I have years of respect for Shan Foster. If he thinks this is an element of the situation, I do not have grounds to say he's a hypersensitive drama queen who's making it all up. Since when, on this board, do we say "Shan Foster's opinion can be summarily dismissed."?
Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
You are either a troll or new to this board. Lea's been raked over the coals quite a few times on here.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Yep, us Yankees are admittedly the only people who think Shan Foster's understanding of Vanderbilt basketball culture is at least worthy of consideration.commadore wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:44 amYou must live up north.alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:54 am I don't think racism is the primary driver here, but I don't have a hard time believing it's a factor for some people. Even when he was hired there were rumblings about "affirmative action hire."
I went to Vanderbilt in the 80s and saw a fair amount of overt racism from my peers. It was not the majority of the Vanderbilt community, but it was certainly an element. Do we really think that has been completely eradicated?
I think we was white people can have a blind spot about this. "I'm not racist, so racism isn't a thing any more."
A black doctor I work with can't go for a run in his own neighborhood without someone calling the police about "a black man running away." He's literally been stopped by police for running in his own neighborhood.
Personally I have years of respect for Shan Foster. If he thinks this is an element of the situation, I do not have grounds to say he's a hypersensitive drama queen who's making it all up. Since when, on this board, do we say "Shan Foster's opinion can be summarily dismissed."?
Also to your point, I was forgetting that in the 80s Vanderbilt was located in Maine. But I'm pretty sure it had moved to Nasville when I lived there in the 90s.
Current location (and home town) is more like "middle." I'm an Indiana gun nut redneck farm boy deer killer, so not exactly liberal New England around here.
Or are you saying what happens to my colleague could not possibly happen in the South?
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
No, only that it is more likely. I live in a suburb city of Montgomery, AL. The day we DON'T see a black man or woman running/jogging down the road is unusual. Nothing to see here.alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:11 pmYep, us Yankees are admittedly the only people who think Shan Foster's understanding of Vanderbilt basketball culture is at least worthy of consideration.commadore wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:44 amYou must live up north.alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:54 am I don't think racism is the primary driver here, but I don't have a hard time believing it's a factor for some people. Even when he was hired there were rumblings about "affirmative action hire."
I went to Vanderbilt in the 80s and saw a fair amount of overt racism from my peers. It was not the majority of the Vanderbilt community, but it was certainly an element. Do we really think that has been completely eradicated?
I think we was white people can have a blind spot about this. "I'm not racist, so racism isn't a thing any more."
A black doctor I work with can't go for a run in his own neighborhood without someone calling the police about "a black man running away." He's literally been stopped by police for running in his own neighborhood.
Personally I have years of respect for Shan Foster. If he thinks this is an element of the situation, I do not have grounds to say he's a hypersensitive drama queen who's making it all up. Since when, on this board, do we say "Shan Foster's opinion can be summarily dismissed."?
Also to your point, I was forgetting that in the 80s Vanderbilt was located in Maine. But I'm pretty sure it had moved to Nasville when I lived there in the 90s.
Current location (and home town) is more like "middle." I'm an Indiana gun nut redneck farm boy deer killer, so not exactly liberal New England around here.
Or are you saying what happens to my colleague could not possibly happen in the South?
Last edited by commadore on Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
A few thoughts:alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:54 am I don't think racism is the primary driver here, but I don't have a hard time believing it's a factor for some people. Even when he was hired there were rumblings about "affirmative action hire."
I went to Vanderbilt in the 80s and saw a fair amount of overt racism from my peers. It was not the majority of the Vanderbilt community, but it was certainly an element. Do we really think that has been completely eradicated?
I think we was white people can have a blind spot about this. "I'm not racist, so racism isn't a thing any more."
A black doctor I work with can't go for a run in his own neighborhood without someone calling the police about "a black man running away." He's literally been stopped by police for running in his own neighborhood.
Personally I have years of respect for Shan Foster. If he thinks this is an element of the situation, I do not have grounds to say he's a hypersensitive drama queen who's making it all up. Since when, on this board, do we say "Shan Foster's opinion can be summarily dismissed."?
Given his overall performance, compared to the previous white coach (CKS) who had a similar (but markedly better) start to his tenure, the criticism has been extremely mild. You hear nothing about CJS on the radio because people just don't care about VUBB anymore, certainly not in large numbers. Coaches here actually got booed previously.
CJS is being paid millions of dollars to coach this program. Why would anybody who is pulling in this kind of money give a crap about perceived (certainly it has not been blatant) racism? It is very unlikely he is gone after this season, and given the overall performance, it seems like a bit of a leap of faith that he deserves another season. I think he can get there, but I'll admit it is based upon glimpses of good things I've seen of him, and not from any sort of previous experience (like CKS had at Illinois State) from other schools or actual accomplishments.
Racism would be complaining about things of CJS that we were fine in previous white coaches. I'm struggling to find any examples, and think any complaint about racism is a cop out in lieu of an actual defense for CJS' coaching to this point (and there are reasons to keep him around after the season). And regardless of whether you can point to actual instances of racism, there is zero evidence that there has been any here and to some extent we have been much easier than we were with CKS. One might suggest that this is because many are conscious of not appearing racist by criticizing a black coach, but I'd argue it is apathy and that the fan base has shrunk to the point where a lot fewer people care about the program.
Finally, Foster didn't mention CJS in his tweet at all and was a bit exasperated that some assumed that was who he was referring to. So I don't think we are dismissing Foster since he didn't specifically say anything regarding this situation.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
No sure many people know that CKS went 7-11 (7th place finish) his last mid-major season, when hired here...and speaking of 7th place mid-major finishes, if the coach who replaced him here loses tonight, he will be in 7th place in a very pathetic excuse for a league and could soon be out on his rear himself... Colangelo fired local legend Thunder Dan Majerle previously...so...
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
The crazy Drew hate……..he didn’t win and got fired. Why all the venom? I like Lee, Garland, Nesmith, Pippen…..we have guys in the NBA that he recruited. I’m glad he got these guys but not happy with our WL record during his tenure. He is gone and we have all moved on from him as a coach.MrMemorial wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:20 pm No sure many people know that CKS went 7-11 (7th place finish) his last mid-major season, when hired here...and speaking of 7th place mid-major finishes, if the coach who replaced him here loses tonight, he will be in 7th place in a very pathetic excuse for a league and could soon be out on his rear himself... Colangelo fired local legend Thunder Dan Majerle previously...so...
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Do you consider BRUNSWICK GA as part of the South?alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:11 pmYep, us Yankees are admittedly the only people who think Shan Foster's understanding of Vanderbilt basketball culture is at least worthy of consideration.commadore wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 11:44 amYou must live up north.alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 9:54 am I don't think racism is the primary driver here, but I don't have a hard time believing it's a factor for some people. Even when he was hired there were rumblings about "affirmative action hire."
I went to Vanderbilt in the 80s and saw a fair amount of overt racism from my peers. It was not the majority of the Vanderbilt community, but it was certainly an element. Do we really think that has been completely eradicated?
I think we was white people can have a blind spot about this. "I'm not racist, so racism isn't a thing any more."
A black doctor I work with can't go for a run in his own neighborhood without someone calling the police about "a black man running away." He's literally been stopped by police for running in his own neighborhood.
Personally I have years of respect for Shan Foster. If he thinks this is an element of the situation, I do not have grounds to say he's a hypersensitive drama queen who's making it all up. Since when, on this board, do we say "Shan Foster's opinion can be summarily dismissed."?
Also to your point, I was forgetting that in the 80s Vanderbilt was located in Maine. But I'm pretty sure it had moved to Nasville when I lived there in the 90s.
Current location (and home town) is more like "middle." I'm an Indiana gun nut redneck farm boy deer killer, so not exactly liberal New England around here.
Or are you saying what happens to my colleague could not possibly happen in the South?
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Just saying there is more PURE racism in Boston, Chicago, NY, Philly, LA, etc, than in Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Montgomery, etc. Didn't used to be that way, but is now.MrMemorial wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:28 amDo you consider BRUNSWICK GA as part of the South?alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:11 pmYep, us Yankees are admittedly the only people who think Shan Foster's understanding of Vanderbilt basketball culture is at least worthy of consideration.
Also to your point, I was forgetting that in the 80s Vanderbilt was located in Maine. But I'm pretty sure it had moved to Nasville when I lived there in the 90s.
Current location (and home town) is more like "middle." I'm an Indiana gun nut redneck farm boy deer killer, so not exactly liberal New England around here.
Or are you saying what happens to my colleague could not possibly happen in the South?
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Arizona seems to have plenty...commadore wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:50 pmJust saying there is more PURE racism in Boston, Chicago, NY, Philly, LA, etc, than in Atlanta, Memphis, Nashville, Montgomery, etc. Didn't used to be that way, but is now.MrMemorial wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:28 amDo you consider BRUNSWICK GA as part of the South?alathIN wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:11 pm
Yep, us Yankees are admittedly the only people who think Shan Foster's understanding of Vanderbilt basketball culture is at least worthy of consideration.
Also to your point, I was forgetting that in the 80s Vanderbilt was located in Maine. But I'm pretty sure it had moved to Nasville when I lived there in the 90s.
Current location (and home town) is more like "middle." I'm an Indiana gun nut redneck farm boy deer killer, so not exactly liberal New England around here.
Or are you saying what happens to my colleague could not possibly happen in the South?
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Here's my take, the worse you do at a job the more flak you are going to take, no matter what the color of your skin is. I think we have some folks that are holding back on criticism of Stackhouse because he is black. And then there are likely those that are more harsh on him because he is black. In general in life, you are going to run into those that judge your efforts way more harshly than others. These are the jerks. In the end, we should always think before we spout out attacks on others, regardless of their occupation.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
All the love for you, but this is weak sauce.underdog74 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:58 pm Shan Foster
@shanfoster_32
Can someone do the research on public scrutiny in coaching? I’d love to see the data aggregated by race. For example, what was the public opinion about Roy Williams vs Hubert Davis during periods with similar records. Asking for a friend.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
For other irrelevant info, not many people know that JVBK went 23-29 overall in his two seasons as head coach at Cornell, the entirety of his HC experience prior to taking over the SEC champions with a returning All-American and promptly missed the tournament. Paul Houlihan actually replaced Fogler with a coach who had a losing record coaching at an Ivy league school.MrMemorial wrote: ↑Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:20 pm No sure many people know that CKS went 7-11 (7th place finish) his last mid-major season, when hired here...and speaking of 7th place mid-major finishes, if the coach who replaced him here loses tonight, he will be in 7th place in a very pathetic excuse for a league and could soon be out on his rear himself... Colangelo fired local legend Thunder Dan Majerle previously...so...
And it is quite amazing that a pathetic excuse for a coach managed to beat Grambling St. by 33. He managed to lose to Tarlington St. by 19 (whoever that is) but somehow still was able to blow out Grambling St. I guess sometimes you can just luck your way into a 33 point win.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Shan deserves his opinion, but I think there's nothing to see here. For all of his lack of success and roster issues, people have been relatively easy on Stack. I witnessed far worse vitriol for Stallings and Drew on here than Stack's ever gotten. He's been deserving of everything that's come his way.
I don't think he's "deserving" of vitriol, nor was Stallings, and all of it is from obsessive handfuls on the web who think their opinion reflects the masses. You get into these thought patterns from gathering in a little site forum with nothing else to talk about, move into the predictable pattern of blame casting and scapegoating and indulge in all of it like a thick and creamy frustration cake you can't tear yourselves away from.
Then you think "oh the whole world thinks like this," the coach has got to go! "That's what a majority of us in Forum VU said after 30 seconds deliberation and a cascade of knowing thumbs-down."
There are a gazillion people blissfully uninterested in what anyone in the forums think. They go to a game, hope for a win, go home and deal with their families. These forums could be good in theory but they generally turn into people thinking they have convened in a summit to control the world. These decisions are not ours to make. But everyone on the internet think they are the person deciding so we have to hear every minute about the current assessment of Stackhouse's job because we've decided that with every loss he is on the way out. It nonsense but that's how web forums seem to go -
I don't think he's "deserving" of vitriol, nor was Stallings, and all of it is from obsessive handfuls on the web who think their opinion reflects the masses. You get into these thought patterns from gathering in a little site forum with nothing else to talk about, move into the predictable pattern of blame casting and scapegoating and indulge in all of it like a thick and creamy frustration cake you can't tear yourselves away from.
Then you think "oh the whole world thinks like this," the coach has got to go! "That's what a majority of us in Forum VU said after 30 seconds deliberation and a cascade of knowing thumbs-down."
There are a gazillion people blissfully uninterested in what anyone in the forums think. They go to a game, hope for a win, go home and deal with their families. These forums could be good in theory but they generally turn into people thinking they have convened in a summit to control the world. These decisions are not ours to make. But everyone on the internet think they are the person deciding so we have to hear every minute about the current assessment of Stackhouse's job because we've decided that with every loss he is on the way out. It nonsense but that's how web forums seem to go -
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
And you have put your finger on the larger issue of social media and its very corrosive effect - good job.memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:16 am Shan deserves his opinion, but I think there's nothing to see here. For all of his lack of success and roster issues, people have been relatively easy on Stack. I witnessed far worse vitriol for Stallings and Drew on here than Stack's ever gotten. He's been deserving of everything that's come his way.
I don't think he's "deserving" of vitriol, nor was Stallings, and all of it is from obsessive handfuls on the web who think their opinion reflects the masses. You get into these thought patterns from gathering in a little site forum with nothing else to talk about, move into the predictable pattern of blame casting and scapegoating and indulge in all of it like a thick and creamy frustration cake you can't tear yourselves away from.
Then you think "oh the whole world thinks like this," the coach has got to go! "That's what a majority of us in Forum VU said after 30 seconds deliberation and a cascade of knowing thumbs-down."
There are a gazillion people blissfully uninterested in what anyone in the forums think. They go to a game, hope for a win, go home and deal with their families. These forums could be good in theory but they generally turn into people thinking they have convened in a summit to control the world. These decisions are not ours to make. But everyone on the internet think they are the person deciding so we have to hear every minute about the current assessment of Stackhouse's job because we've decided that with every loss he is on the way out. It nonsense but that's how web forums seem to go -
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
Bingo. Most people are not racists and are weary of endless discussions of the extent to which racism does still exist and which groups are most prone to it.charlestonalum wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:56 amAnd you have put your finger on the larger issue of social media and its very corrosive effect - good job.memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:16 am Shan deserves his opinion, but I think there's nothing to see here. For all of his lack of success and roster issues, people have been relatively easy on Stack. I witnessed far worse vitriol for Stallings and Drew on here than Stack's ever gotten. He's been deserving of everything that's come his way.
I don't think he's "deserving" of vitriol, nor was Stallings, and all of it is from obsessive handfuls on the web who think their opinion reflects the masses. You get into these thought patterns from gathering in a little site forum with nothing else to talk about, move into the predictable pattern of blame casting and scapegoating and indulge in all of it like a thick and creamy frustration cake you can't tear yourselves away from.
Then you think "oh the whole world thinks like this," the coach has got to go! "That's what a majority of us in Forum VU said after 30 seconds deliberation and a cascade of knowing thumbs-down."
There are a gazillion people blissfully uninterested in what anyone in the forums think. They go to a game, hope for a win, go home and deal with their families. These forums could be good in theory but they generally turn into people thinking they have convened in a summit to control the world. These decisions are not ours to make. But everyone on the internet think they are the person deciding so we have to hear every minute about the current assessment of Stackhouse's job because we've decided that with every loss he is on the way out. It nonsense but that's how web forums seem to go -
Last edited by nyyankeeDore on Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- DeefromAtlanta
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Coaching in a different world today
The open transfer portal and NIL money have dramatically changed the landscape for coaches.
I would guess no one on this site was at the practices prior to Alabama. In reading quotes attributed to Stackhouse later in the week after the initial firestorm, I get the sense Stackhouse was told to have more individual communications with players and keep the dirty laundry behind closed doors.
Results moving forward will help determine his control of the team. It was a good win over Ole Miss. Let's see what transpires midweek against one of the best teams in the country.
I would guess no one on this site was at the practices prior to Alabama. In reading quotes attributed to Stackhouse later in the week after the initial firestorm, I get the sense Stackhouse was told to have more individual communications with players and keep the dirty laundry behind closed doors.
Results moving forward will help determine his control of the team. It was a good win over Ole Miss. Let's see what transpires midweek against one of the best teams in the country.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
I'm not sure I understand your meaning. Relaying a former Vandy basketball star's opinion on our current coach is weak? How? Those are his words, not mine.buffy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:08 pmAll the love for you, but this is weak sauce.underdog74 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:58 pm Shan Foster
@shanfoster_32
Can someone do the research on public scrutiny in coaching? I’d love to see the data aggregated by race. For example, what was the public opinion about Roy Williams vs Hubert Davis during periods with similar records. Asking for a friend.
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Re: Shan Foster's take on the situation via Twitter
I love Shan Foster and that he played for Vanderbilt. Great representative - then and now.