Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

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vu2003rpl
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by vu2003rpl »

Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 pm 17 days until baseball. :(
I hate posts like this. Go watch baseball then.
I didn’t make this original post but i’ll take your advice. Headed to Arlington TX next weekend with my dad. I’ll enjoy it, thank you much.


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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Dickeys Nightmare »

vu2003rpl wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:28 am
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 pm 17 days until baseball. :(
I hate posts like this. Go watch baseball then.
I didn’t make this original post but i’ll take your advice. Headed to Arlington TX next weekend with my dad. I’ll enjoy it, thank you much.
You’re welcome.

You know, it is possible to do both. Support the student-athletes in both sports. They’re not mutually exclusive.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by mathguy »

Go Vandy! wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:52 pm No chance this will be 106-44, right?
Thank you. I was trying to remember the score of that game to figure out whether this was worse or not. I guess we ... ummm ... "fell short" of that record?
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by commadore »

Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 pm 17 days until baseball. :(
I hate posts like this. Go watch baseball then.
I will hater boy. And I hate posters like YOU.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by OldDude »

utahozzie wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:31 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:21 pm I don’t know that Shelby is gone. He logged some minutes earlier and didn’t do much of anything. Committed a foul way out of position and missed a shot big time. Granted. Nobody has done much of anything this game. So who knows. Sure hope he stays because he and Dort came as a package. And I think both have displayed potential (Dort more so, obviously).

This was just one of those nights. $hit happens. VU isn’t the only team to suffer it. Bama did in their last outing. They were clearly on a mission to respond to being embarrassed last weekend. VU was the unfortunate sacrificial lamb.
Jerry just referred to young guys not playing because they aren’t bought in…
Would like to see a clear explanation of what he means by "not bought in". The young guys are exactly that - young guys. Isn't it up to a coach to teach, set reachable goals and get them bought in ?
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Jason94 »

MemorialMagic wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:12 pm
dallasdore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:58 pm
Go Vandy! wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:52 pm No chance this will be 106-44, right?
So what about Stackhouse? He doesn't have the tourney apprearances or sweet 16's to hang on to.
Neither did Stallings. That loss was before he had his success.
We should have been in the tournament in 2000. While 2003 was bleak, the we did have a very good 2000 season where we beat multiple ranked teams and overall he had beaten multiple top 10 teams, including a top 10 UF team on the road. We also had broked the losing streak to UK against a very good UK team and given that the 2003 team had zero seniors playing in the rotation, CKS was essentially given a last chance to prove he could get over the hump.

CJS has a bit less to show for his time at Vanderbilt, but given the injuries and the instances where the team has really shown up, probably should get an extra season to show if he can get over the hump. I think there is a chance he can do it, but I don't know if he is too stubborn to change his ways to get it accomplished. If you recall, CKS had to change a bit between seasons 2003 and 2004 and he also changed the offense completely as well. Will CJS admit that what he has been doing hasn't been working out the way he needs to and make the necessary adjustments? If he does he should be able to have success. If not he will be gone after next season IMO. It is not what I prefer, but what probably will happen.

At this point all CJS really has to show for 4 seasons is a couple of home wins in the NIT against decent teams, a season which featured a few wins against teams that were either barely in the top 25 or borderline top 25 teams. He hasn't shown he can beat a top 10 team, and hasn't shown that he can beat either UT or UK. We are about a year away from really needing to see some results or needing to move on. I don't think he has shown that he cannot get to the tournament or beat really good teams, but he hasn't quite figured out roster management to show that he can do those things.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Jason94 wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:37 am
MemorialMagic wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:12 pm
dallasdore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:58 pm
So what about Stackhouse? He doesn't have the tourney apprearances or sweet 16's to hang on to.
Neither did Stallings. That loss was before he had his success.
At this point all CJS really has to show for 4 seasons is a couple of home wins in the NIT against decent teams, a season which featured a few wins against teams that were either barely in the top 25 or borderline top 25 teams. He hasn't shown he can beat a top 10 team, and hasn't shown that he can beat either UT or UK. We are about a year away from really needing to see some results or needing to move on. I don't think he has shown that he cannot get to the tournament or beat really good teams, but he hasn't quite figured out roster management to show that he can do those things.
All valid points. I, too, believe Stack has demonstrated enough to earn a fifth season. This team has played inspired basketball at times. At the start of SEC play they looked poised to make some noise. Then the Robbins and Dort injuries put them behind the eight ball for a few weeks. And they still competed in that first game against Bama at Memorial despite having just lost Robbins the day before and adjusting on the fly. I am curious to see how they look in late February/March assuming Robbins stays healthy.

But next year it is completely fair to say that it’s make-or-break time for Stack. Even though the program he inherited was in shambles and he has done a decent job of pulling VU out of the SEC cellar, it isn’t unreasonable to expect an NCAAT berth by that time. Off-season retention and replacement via the portal will determine his fate.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Dickeys Nightmare »

commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:51 am
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:26 pm 17 days until baseball. :(
I hate posts like this. Go watch baseball then.
I will hater boy. And I hate posters like YOU.
That’s not very nice.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by memphisVUalum »

dallasdore wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:58 pm
Go Vandy! wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:52 pm No chance this will be 106-44, right?
Wasn't that the score of the game versus UK during Stallings tenure?

Everyone seemed to ride Stallings after that until he was run out of town. So what about Stackhouse? He doesn't have the tourney apprearances or sweet 16's to hang on to.
This game against a furious #4 Ala. team (who had reached #2 two games prior) ended 101-44, not matching CKS' 2003 106-44 blowout loss v. #2 UK although our output was similar. UK went 32-4 that season and were undefeated in the SEC.

Kevin Stallings returned the favor to Kentucky five years later, beating them by 41 points, one of UK's most lopsided losses in their history, so nobody during the rest of his tenure was thinking about the earlier loss differential after that. Shan Foster and Ross Neltner each had individually outscored UK into different points in the 2nd half; we led 41-11 at halftime. CKS started to occasionally beat UK, despite their usual high rankings, by his 3rd season when he handed #11 UK an L in Memorial Gym by 13 points. Vanderbilt even started to be ranked sometimes.

After an early period of losing to UK a lot (going 2-11 against their highly ranked teams his first 6 years) he went about 11-15 against them his last 26 games (last 13 out of 16 or so years). In the period 2006-2008 (years 7-9 of his tenure) he was 5-1 against them including going 2-0 the last year of Tubby Smith, who had administered the drubbing you mentioned, along with regular victories over Billy Gillespie.

Stallings' 2016 victory against #16 UK at Memorial Gym was our most recent win against UK, a year he went 1-1 against them, which happened several times in his tenure, as we used to split with them, winning at home.

His early career UK blowout loss (year 4 out of 16 or so years at VU) is not what I remember internet fans riding Stallings about when he was actually here, and what they did ride him out of town about was stupid. Things like not going deep enough in the NCAA tourney, not winning the SEC championship (though he did win the SEC tourney championship in 2012, knocking off eventual national champion UK in the finals), A favorite gripe was not liking his personality, while presuming the players felt the same about him, which they did not.

Example: Wade Baldwin defended Stallings when internet fans (along with lazy journalists who looked in at Internet fan comments) were mauling him over his attempt to instill discipline by barking at Wade after CKS was told after a victory over sour grapes UT (I think falsely) by a dour, whining UT assistant liar coach that Wade had deliberately meant bad sportsmanship by some gesture or other after the VU victory. Stallings did not want his players doing anything that would look like bad sportsmanship and the result of his rather irate effort to teach Baldwin not to be rude after a win was for various forum nerds to castigate, gang up on, and jump on him. Baldwin thought of the incident as a parent issuing tough love orders. He understood and spoke up for CKS. Baldwin's supportive comments were ignored by the internet CKS haters, some of whom rampage on this point even today.

Most of the time, obsessive, screeching nerd freak-outs in miscellaneous internet forums (not thinking of this one in particular) or even Twitter insist that a coach has "lost the locker room" and all that, they are absolutely wrong. But they convince themselves, as with the MSM politics lying news, that the players "feel as we do" and even "we" may not all feel the same, and besides that, the majority in a viral anger board does not always represent anything about what the average fan feels who never looks at a VU forum, which would likely be 96% or more of the VU fans in a gym or stadium.

Unfortunately some lazy journalists get caught up in internet land "to decide what to think" and presume the same as the internet fans do because it's an easy place for a writer lacking in confidence to look for what they think "the fans want" in writing a story, but it's not an accurate gauge of the opinions of non-internet fans who don't think of themselves as having a mission to obsessively/delusionally try to impact or control what a school does hiring coaches. Sadly, the resultant media coverage after writers see some internet screechings can later affect what a few non-internet forum fans who read a newspaper might think.

Gripe-fests can snowball, imprinting media coverage and what any players foolish enough to look at an internet site may think fans feel. Internet opinions uttered after a loss are mainly in reality a knee-jerk internet conversation steered by a couple of the loudest mouths in the room who imagine themselves "thought leaders," often bullying into silence less dire assessments they don't want heard; it's where their thoughts meander when they have nothing else to do, and not what healthy people with other things to think about focus on when a game is over. The fan emotional roller coaster mindset is not something to base any thoughtful hiring decisions on.

If Stallings' hiring/firing had depended on immediately winning and "taking internet fan temps," he would not have gotten to year 5 when he made it to his first NCAA tourney, finishing in the Sweet 16.
Last edited by memphisVUalum on Mon Feb 06, 2023 4:49 pm, edited 21 times in total.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by commadore »

Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm
commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:51 am
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:27 pm

I hate posts like this. Go watch baseball then.
I will hater boy. And I hate posters like YOU.
That’s not very nice.
And neither are you.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by memphisVUalum »

All that I said aside, that does not make the Stallings analogy that I was going over one that may be on point with the current situation. I just decided to review what happened in games against UK during his tenure since the 106-44 loss was mentioned.
Last edited by memphisVUalum on Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by memphisVUalum »

commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:34 pm
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm
commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:51 am

I will hater boy. And I hate posters like YOU.
That’s not very nice.
And neither are you.
Dickey's Nightmare was saying that the post made him uncomfortable - that he hated that type of post. He did not say he hated you. Responding to him that you hate him is unfortunate.

I guess in this world of constant warring, goading and enemy-making on an international basis, which affects how people treat each other as individuals, maybe DN mentioning the word "hate" in the first place about a post might not be the best idea in the future because people then like to escalate "the hate." That's why we are currently on the brink of nuclear war after goading a nation by stepping over their long-stated bright line border security concerns in Nov. 2021 leading to a reactive invasion in response to our antics after we refused to use diplomacy after that, followed by our joyfully escalating sales abroad of our favorite military industrial complex missiles. All of which makes CEOs of bomb-makers very happy, as Eisenhower once warned.

So I would suggest maybe skipping the ate-hay (hate) word after seeing the escalation above before we wind up pushing the Doomsday Clock hands forward again. "I counsel peace," as was said by a character in Breaking Away (1979).
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Dickeys Nightmare »

commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:34 pm
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm
commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:51 am

I will hater boy. And I hate posters like YOU.
That’s not very nice.
And neither are you.
Oh, I am very nice.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Dickeys Nightmare »

memphisVUalum wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:38 pm
commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:34 pm
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:04 pm

That’s not very nice.
And neither are you.
Dickey's Nightmare was saying that the post made him uncomfortable - that he hated that type of post. He did not say he hated you. Responding to him that you hate him is unfortunate.

I guess in this world of constant warring, goading and enemy-making on an international basis, which affects how people treat each other as individuals, maybe DN mentioning the word "hate" in the first place about a post might not be the best idea in the future because people then like to escalate "the hate." That's why we are currently on the brink of nuclear war after goading a nation by stepping over their long-stated bright line border security concerns in Nov. 2021 leading to a reactive invasion in response to our antics after we refused to use diplomacy after that, followed by our joyfully escalating sales abroad of our favorite military industrial complex missiles. All of which makes CEOs of bomb-makers very happy, as Eisenhower once warned.

So I would suggest maybe skipping the ate-hay (hate) word after seeing the escalation above before we wind up pushing the Doomsday Clock hands forward again. "I counsel peace," as was said by a character in Breaking Away (1979).
His response was indeed very unfortunate.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by commadore »

Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:11 pm
memphisVUalum wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:38 pm
commadore wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:34 pm

And neither are you.
Dickey's Nightmare was saying that the post made him uncomfortable - that he hated that type of post. He did not say he hated you. Responding to him that you hate him is unfortunate.

I guess in this world of constant warring, goading and enemy-making on an international basis, which affects how people treat each other as individuals, maybe DN mentioning the word "hate" in the first place about a post might not be the best idea in the future because people then like to escalate "the hate." That's why we are currently on the brink of nuclear war after goading a nation by stepping over their long-stated bright line border security concerns in Nov. 2021 leading to a reactive invasion in response to our antics after we refused to use diplomacy after that, followed by our joyfully escalating sales abroad of our favorite military industrial complex missiles. All of which makes CEOs of bomb-makers very happy, as Eisenhower once warned.

So I would suggest maybe skipping the ate-hay (hate) word after seeing the escalation above before we wind up pushing the Doomsday Clock hands forward again. "I counsel peace," as was said by a character in Breaking Away (1979).
His response was indeed very unfortunate.
Better watch it, guys, I have my thumb on the button. I suggest we all give it a.rest. Just fans. I was pointing to something hopefully good in our near future. He said he hated posts like that. I said I hated posters like that, simply meaning I hate to be called out for pointing out the obvious...our best sport is coming. If you two want to continue this chrade, we can, but I think it best just to move on.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by VUaskew »

So, has anyone been to Central BBQ on 21st, where Sportsman's Grill used to be?
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by dallasdore »

Memphis, very well stated. Personally, I took the 4 letter H word out of my vocabulary years ago, now it's reserved only for murderers, rapists, child molesters, Hitler, Putin, that's about it. It's been a refreshing change.

Good points all about Stallings. The difference, I think, is that Stallings could take non-stars (even projects) and turn them into stars. We knew Stallings could coach. I don't see that Stackhouse can coach (college). SPJ would have developed into a star no matter where he went. But I guess we'll see.

What do you mean Sportsman's grill is no more???? Since when? Next thing we know, SATCO won't serve pitchers of beer... Sad times.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by Dickeys Nightmare »

commadore wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:07 am
Dickeys Nightmare wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:11 pm
memphisVUalum wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:38 pm

Dickey's Nightmare was saying that the post made him uncomfortable - that he hated that type of post. He did not say he hated you. Responding to him that you hate him is unfortunate.

I guess in this world of constant warring, goading and enemy-making on an international basis, which affects how people treat each other as individuals, maybe DN mentioning the word "hate" in the first place about a post might not be the best idea in the future because people then like to escalate "the hate." That's why we are currently on the brink of nuclear war after goading a nation by stepping over their long-stated bright line border security concerns in Nov. 2021 leading to a reactive invasion in response to our antics after we refused to use diplomacy after that, followed by our joyfully escalating sales abroad of our favorite military industrial complex missiles. All of which makes CEOs of bomb-makers very happy, as Eisenhower once warned.

So I would suggest maybe skipping the ate-hay (hate) word after seeing the escalation above before we wind up pushing the Doomsday Clock hands forward again. "I counsel peace," as was said by a character in Breaking Away (1979).
His response was indeed very unfortunate.
Better watch it, guys, I have my thumb on the button. I suggest we all give it a.rest. Just fans. I was pointing to something hopefully good in our near future. He said he hated posts like that. I said I hated posters like that, simply meaning I hate to be called out for pointing out the obvious...our best sport is coming. If you two want to continue this chrade, we can, but I think it best just to move on.
Glad to move on. Said what I wanted to say. No hard feelings. Blessed are the peacemakers.
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by UltimateVUFan »

memphisVUalum wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:15 pm Kevin Stallings returned the favor to Kentucky five years later, beating them by 41 points, one of UK's most lopsided losses in their history, so nobody during the rest of his tenure was thinking about the earlier loss differential after that. Shan Foster alone had outscored UK into the 2nd half; we led 41-11 at halftime.
Great post, memphis! Though I must clarify: Neltner was the one who outscored UK in the first half. Hence one of my all-time favorite cheers: “NELTNER’S WINNING!!!”
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Re: Well...this is an interesting starting lineup

Post by dallasdore »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:44 pm
memphisVUalum wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:15 pm Kevin Stallings returned the favor to Kentucky five years later, beating them by 41 points, one of UK's most lopsided losses in their history, so nobody during the rest of his tenure was thinking about the earlier loss differential after that. Shan Foster alone had outscored UK into the 2nd half; we led 41-11 at halftime.
Great post, memphis! Though I must clarify: Neltner was the one who outscored UK in the first half. Hence one of my all-time favorite cheers: “NELTNER’S WINNING!!!”
I remember that game now! Heck, I was so giddy when they were chanting that. Back when Memorial was rocking and the students were creative. That originated from the student section.

Question: When Vandy didn't get an invite to the tourney in 2000, was that the year that annoying Dick Vitale went on a rant after the selection show about how we should have been selected and shame on the selection committee for not including us? It was one of the committee's most egregious errors in the modern era, IMO.
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