Honest question
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- Vandy187187
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Honest question
Stack has admitted that he is learning the college game. He was a pro always coached pros in the G-league. Those guys are under contract. His student athletes can leave at the drop of the hat for the next team. Does Stack realize this?
Just like does he realize that when you lose a game you are less likely to go to the post season? He talked about preseason games, i.e. non SEC games. Does he realize that you need to win as many as you can to go to the post season? He talked about winning championships, does he know you can't win a championship if you don't get to the dance? Does he know that if a player can't transfer they aren't any good? So we can't take transfers in as it's a tight window like Coach Ralph said? If you are about player development to improve your program doesn't that mean that young players have to play?
All I see if conflicting statements, excuses, and a coach that refuses to change his ways because it's his team and he will run it as he sees fit. Maybe that's why the gym is half full of fans. Does he want to alienate the fans he has with what he is doing?
I really think he can win and do well. But in year 4 he needs to do something to show that he is learning. I haven't seen that so far. With Liam out 4-6 weeks, he's in big trouble unless he starts to learn fast how to keep his job
Just like does he realize that when you lose a game you are less likely to go to the post season? He talked about preseason games, i.e. non SEC games. Does he realize that you need to win as many as you can to go to the post season? He talked about winning championships, does he know you can't win a championship if you don't get to the dance? Does he know that if a player can't transfer they aren't any good? So we can't take transfers in as it's a tight window like Coach Ralph said? If you are about player development to improve your program doesn't that mean that young players have to play?
All I see if conflicting statements, excuses, and a coach that refuses to change his ways because it's his team and he will run it as he sees fit. Maybe that's why the gym is half full of fans. Does he want to alienate the fans he has with what he is doing?
I really think he can win and do well. But in year 4 he needs to do something to show that he is learning. I haven't seen that so far. With Liam out 4-6 weeks, he's in big trouble unless he starts to learn fast how to keep his job
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Re: Honest question
That's a pretty literal and selective cherrypicking of one sentence he once said; now you use it to condemn his abilities with after we just lost to #4 Alabama by 12 after LSU lost by 40 while we were down our best player. As though we were favored to win. Personally, I don't see the situation this way. The chances are low for most teams to beat Alabama this season even with all their players healthy and the best of coaches. I'm still focused on the loss of Liam too much to go through the fan mood swing attack mode right now.
- Vandy187187
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Re: Honest question
What do you think will make us better next year than this year? Or even further out, what do you see that makes us better in 2025? I'd love to hear your thoughts if I am so negative. I'm looking for positives with our roster, our coach and our program at this point because it looks like a downward spiral from here on out for the foreseeable future.memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:45 pm That's a pretty literal and selective cherrypicking of one sentence he once said; now you use it to condemn his abilities with after we just lost to #4 Alabama by 12 after LSU lost by 40 while we were down our best player. As though we were favored to win. Personally, I don't see the situation this way. The chances are low for most teams to beat Alabama this season even with all their players healthy and the best of coaches. I'm still focused on the loss of Liam too much to go through the fan mood swing attack mode right now.
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Re: Honest question
It's not my job to prognosticate and I don't have the same requirements to maintain my fandom. I grew up playing sports when younger, and I take winning and losing as it comes. We're not all built the same in how we follow sports. This is my alma mater. I'm not watching it with a critique pad out. I did not offer a prognostication essay by what I wrote. It just seems like internet fans (not you in particular) don't know what to do with themselves between games other than to chew on the worry bone. I don't feel like gnawing right now. I gnaw on the worry bone during the games.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:49 pmWhat do you think will make us better next year than this year? Or even further out, what do you see that makes us better in 2025? I'd love to hear your thoughts if I am so negative. I'm looking for positives with our roster, our coach and our program at this point because it looks like a downward spiral from here on out for the foreseeable future.memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:45 pm That's a pretty literal and selective cherrypicking of one sentence he once said; now you use it to condemn his abilities with after we just lost to #4 Alabama by 12 after LSU lost by 40 while we were down our best player. As though we were favored to win. Personally, I don't see the situation this way. The chances are low for most teams to beat Alabama this season even with all their players healthy and the best of coaches. I'm still focused on the loss of Liam too much to go through the fan mood swing attack mode right now.
I'm sure other people can pop in and fulfill your assignment.
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Re: Honest question
Understood. My fandom is not in question. My belief in the direction we are headed certainly is and I can't be alone. Clark Lea has made some progress. You can see that they are getting more from their existing players and the youngsters are making an impact. Recruiting the same. I don't see that here 4 years in. Do we give 6 years? 8 years? Football has always been a dumpster fire but this is basketball, it only takes a few players and some good schemes to win games. Much harder in football with what 85 scholarships?memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:04 amIt's not my job to prognosticate and I don't have the same requirements to maintain my fandom. I grew up playing sports when younger, and I take winning and losing as it comes. We're not all built the same in how we follow sports. This is my alma mater. I'm not watching it with a critique pad out. I did not offer a prognostication essay by what I wrote. It just seems like internet fans (not you in particular) don't know what to do with themselves between games other than to chew on the worry bone. I don't feel like gnawing right now. I gnaw on the worry bone during the games.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:49 pmWhat do you think will make us better next year than this year? Or even further out, what do you see that makes us better in 2025? I'd love to hear your thoughts if I am so negative. I'm looking for positives with our roster, our coach and our program at this point because it looks like a downward spiral from here on out for the foreseeable future.memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:45 pm That's a pretty literal and selective cherrypicking of one sentence he once said; now you use it to condemn his abilities with after we just lost to #4 Alabama by 12 after LSU lost by 40 while we were down our best player. As though we were favored to win. Personally, I don't see the situation this way. The chances are low for most teams to beat Alabama this season even with all their players healthy and the best of coaches. I'm still focused on the loss of Liam too much to go through the fan mood swing attack mode right now.
I'm sure other people can pop in and fulfill your assignment.
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Re: Honest question
This is not my forte. I'm more like someone who would do better working for them in support (but I'm kidding as I don't live nearby) than trying to deciding hiring and firing time frames. I don't think about things like that except when forced to in a forum.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:09 amUnderstood. My fandom is not in question. My belief in the direction we are headed certainly is and I can't be alone. Clark Lea has made some progress. You can see that they are getting more from their existing players and the youngsters are making an impact. Recruiting the same. I don't see that here 4 years in. Do we give 6 years? 8 years? Football has always been a dumpster fire but this is basketball, it only takes a few players and some good schemes to win games. Much harder in football with what 85 scholarships?memphisVUalum wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:04 amIt's not my job to prognosticate and I don't have the same requirements to maintain my fandom. I grew up playing sports when younger, and I take winning and losing as it comes. We're not all built the same in how we follow sports. This is my alma mater. I'm not watching it with a critique pad out. I did not offer a prognostication essay by what I wrote. It just seems like internet fans (not you in particular) don't know what to do with themselves between games other than to chew on the worry bone. I don't feel like gnawing right now. I gnaw on the worry bone during the games.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:49 pm
What do you think will make us better next year than this year? Or even further out, what do you see that makes us better in 2025? I'd love to hear your thoughts if I am so negative. I'm looking for positives with our roster, our coach and our program at this point because it looks like a downward spiral from here on out for the foreseeable future.
I'm sure other people can pop in and fulfill your assignment.
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Re: Honest question
I'm not close either proximity wise but the $7 ESPN streaming package let's me watch every game. I had to fly 3 hours to go to VU while I was there 2001-2005. We went to the NIT 2 times and the NCAA once to the sweet sixteen. If you wanted to see the game you better get there an hour early or the student section was full. We didn't have the greatest players. Freije, Moore, Beal, Neltner, the 7' international player I can't spell his name, Plavich, Holwerda, Smith, Lakey, Byars, Ogilvy, Terrell, Gordon, Metcalf, Cage, Skuchas, Foster, Carroll. I might be mixing some of these players and times forgive me it's been 2 decades but None of these guys played in the NBA but we won a lot of games. Memorial was rocking. I was there. What happened from there is a mystery to me because we have better players today than we did then. And we suck now we can't break .500.
I also don't remember anyone getting hurt for the season or large portions of the season either. Everything is upside down for our basketball program from Stallings truth be told.
I also don't remember anyone getting hurt for the season or large portions of the season either. Everything is upside down for our basketball program from Stallings truth be told.
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Re: Honest question
Demarre Carroll only played 578 NBA games for 8 different NBA teams.
Anybody who says he didn't play in the NBA must have early onset dementia.
Anybody who says he didn't play in the NBA must have early onset dementia.
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Re: Honest question
I don't think this is the game to freak out about.
Alabama looks like a final four team to me. Yes, in the past, Vanderbilt beat some final four teams in Memorial from time to time - but it was never such a routine occurrence that we would all lose our minds when the visiting final four team came in and won. And I don't remember it ever happening when our best player was out with an injury.
I share some of your concerns with the direction of the program. Not happy with where we are. Don't see a clear path to somewhere better.
I do see some positive signs though. Dort made some freshman mistakes but he also made some outstanding plays where he looked every bit the size and athletic ability of the Alabama players. Dia was also impressive at times. These are the kind of guys who with experience will be able to match up favorably with the best.
I don't see their backcourt equivalents yet. And I'd like to see them getting more playing time.
Stackhouse is a fiery combative guy which comes with its pros and cons. We saw the pros on Saturday: there was more fight on our side than Arkansas' and we won the game. There are also times when it appears Stack is a fighter who is fighting the wrong battles.
I think Stackhouse needs to demonstrate that the program is moving in the right direction and do so soon. If there is no evidence of that at the end of the season I will pick up my torch and pitchfork and join the mob with you.
In the meantime there are some basketball games to play.
Alabama looks like a final four team to me. Yes, in the past, Vanderbilt beat some final four teams in Memorial from time to time - but it was never such a routine occurrence that we would all lose our minds when the visiting final four team came in and won. And I don't remember it ever happening when our best player was out with an injury.
I share some of your concerns with the direction of the program. Not happy with where we are. Don't see a clear path to somewhere better.
I do see some positive signs though. Dort made some freshman mistakes but he also made some outstanding plays where he looked every bit the size and athletic ability of the Alabama players. Dia was also impressive at times. These are the kind of guys who with experience will be able to match up favorably with the best.
I don't see their backcourt equivalents yet. And I'd like to see them getting more playing time.
Stackhouse is a fiery combative guy which comes with its pros and cons. We saw the pros on Saturday: there was more fight on our side than Arkansas' and we won the game. There are also times when it appears Stack is a fighter who is fighting the wrong battles.
I think Stackhouse needs to demonstrate that the program is moving in the right direction and do so soon. If there is no evidence of that at the end of the season I will pick up my torch and pitchfork and join the mob with you.
In the meantime there are some basketball games to play.
- charlestonalum
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Re: Honest question
1871, your fandom is tirsesome, incessant criticism of our coach. Vanderbilt hired the coach with no college coaching experience. Recruiting at Vanderbilt is very challenging and especially to someone who has never ever done it. Tonight the players were in the game late against the best team in SEC without arguably the best center in SEC. We were ice cold from 3 and we were there at the end. I like Stack a lot more than Stallings and we will see how his tenure turns out. Find something to like for a change, my friend, or at least throttle back on the continuous crticism that is so repetitive. A suggestion: using your expert analysis, tell us the effect of not having Liam for next 6 weeks and what a good coach can do to make up for that loss.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:42 pm Stack has admitted that he is learning the college game. He was a pro always coached pros in the G-league. Those guys are under contract. His student athletes can leave at the drop of the hat for the next team. Does Stack realize this?
Re: Honest question
Not trying to mix it up here, just a comment or two.
First , injuries happen and we don't have details. But what I see is a lack of playing time for the freshmen, or so it seems. That is on the coaching staff- a difficult problem , discussed here often. That is a coaching decision. And without a host of options inside, we just don't have enough inside to compete.
Second, I think Stackhouse needs some offensive guru with lots of college game experience. I don't know if that type of coach is easy
to find-but I believe that our systems just don't seem to give us enough scoring opportunities. We are done if our 3 pointers don't fall, every time.
So finding and preparing personnel, putting them in best systems to maximize results- not rocket science for sure, but there it is.
By the way, Demarre Carroll transferred out and finished college career elsewhere before playing in the NBA. He had a much better college career in a different system.
First , injuries happen and we don't have details. But what I see is a lack of playing time for the freshmen, or so it seems. That is on the coaching staff- a difficult problem , discussed here often. That is a coaching decision. And without a host of options inside, we just don't have enough inside to compete.
Second, I think Stackhouse needs some offensive guru with lots of college game experience. I don't know if that type of coach is easy
to find-but I believe that our systems just don't seem to give us enough scoring opportunities. We are done if our 3 pointers don't fall, every time.
So finding and preparing personnel, putting them in best systems to maximize results- not rocket science for sure, but there it is.
By the way, Demarre Carroll transferred out and finished college career elsewhere before playing in the NBA. He had a much better college career in a different system.
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Re: Honest question
In your case, there is at least one "fan" the program is better off without.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:42 pm Stack has admitted that he is learning the college game. He was a pro always coached pros in the G-league. Those guys are under contract. His student athletes can leave at the drop of the hat for the next team. Does Stack realize this?
Just like does he realize that when you lose a game you are less likely to go to the post season? He talked about preseason games, i.e. non SEC games. Does he realize that you need to win as many as you can to go to the post season? He talked about winning championships, does he know you can't win a championship if you don't get to the dance? Does he know that if a player can't transfer they aren't any good? So we can't take transfers in as it's a tight window like Coach Ralph said? If you are about player development to improve your program doesn't that mean that young players have to play?
All I see if conflicting statements, excuses, and a coach that refuses to change his ways because it's his team and he will run it as he sees fit. Maybe that's why the gym is half full of fans. Does he want to alienate the fans he has with what he is doing?
I really think he can win and do well. But in year 4 he needs to do something to show that he is learning. I haven't seen that so far. With Liam out 4-6 weeks, he's in big trouble unless he starts to learn fast how to keep his job
Grand Canyon called. They appreciate your support.
- OldDude
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Re: Honest question
Charleston :
"tell us the effect of not having Liam for next 6 weeks and what a good coach can do to make up for that loss."
Seriously , the question of the season. Man, I wish I knew and I am sure CJS wishes he knew as well. I think with Liam protecting the rim, we could have won last night. Coach has a real challenge on this. Not sure I see QMB at all able to help in any major way. Give Dort big minutes and hope he is a quick learner ? Might at least keep him out of the portal ; I have concerns here as to all the freshmen.
"tell us the effect of not having Liam for next 6 weeks and what a good coach can do to make up for that loss."
Seriously , the question of the season. Man, I wish I knew and I am sure CJS wishes he knew as well. I think with Liam protecting the rim, we could have won last night. Coach has a real challenge on this. Not sure I see QMB at all able to help in any major way. Give Dort big minutes and hope he is a quick learner ? Might at least keep him out of the portal ; I have concerns here as to all the freshmen.
- OldDude
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Re: Honest question
Good grief, Mr. Memorial, this is a sports board where people express opinions. Agree or disagree all you want, that is what it is about. However, you constantly challenging others loyalty and referencing Drew gets old. Please give it a restMrMemorial wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:17 amIn your case, there is at least one "fan" the program is better off without.Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:42 pm Stack has admitted that he is learning the college game. He was a pro always coached pros in the G-league. Those guys are under contract. His student athletes can leave at the drop of the hat for the next team. Does Stack realize this?
Just like does he realize that when you lose a game you are less likely to go to the post season? He talked about preseason games, i.e. non SEC games. Does he realize that you need to win as many as you can to go to the post season? He talked about winning championships, does he know you can't win a championship if you don't get to the dance? Does he know that if a player can't transfer they aren't any good? So we can't take transfers in as it's a tight window like Coach Ralph said? If you are about player development to improve your program doesn't that mean that young players have to play?
All I see if conflicting statements, excuses, and a coach that refuses to change his ways because it's his team and he will run it as he sees fit. Maybe that's why the gym is half full of fans. Does he want to alienate the fans he has with what he is doing?
I really think he can win and do well. But in year 4 he needs to do something to show that he is learning. I haven't seen that so far. With Liam out 4-6 weeks, he's in big trouble unless he starts to learn fast how to keep his job
Grand Canyon called. They appreciate your support.
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Re: Honest question
I appreciate your patient, calm responses to my dashed out notes that might sound a tone i dont intend. Thanks-Vandy187187 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 12:50 am I'm not close either proximity wise but the $7 ESPN streaming package let's me watch every game. I had to fly 3 hours to go to VU while I was there 2001-2005. We went to the NIT 2 times and the NCAA once to the sweet sixteen. If you wanted to see the game you better get there an hour early or the student section was full. We didn't have the greatest players. Freije, Moore, Beal, Neltner, the 7' international player I can't spell his name, Plavich, Holwerda, Smith, Lakey, Byars, Ogilvy, Terrell, Gordon, Metcalf, Cage, Skuchas, Foster, Carroll. I might be mixing some of these players and times forgive me it's been 2 decades but None of these guys played in the NBA but we won a lot of games. Memorial was rocking. I was there. What happened from there is a mystery to me because we have better players today than we did then. And we suck now we can't break .500.
I also don't remember anyone getting hurt for the season or large portions of the season either. Everything is upside down for our basketball program from Stallings truth be told.
As to your question, I think we need to consider that a lot of things may have changed outside VU besides our own team. Even Kentucky is having trouble winning. Other teams have changed and sometimes there's more parity since we last were in the upper tier in basketball.
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Re: Honest question
Yes that phrase just sort of stumbled out of me.
Chew on and gnaw over worries - i think thats what we all do
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Re: Honest question
This is why I wanted to see the freshmen in the pre-conference season. Dort and most every non-5 star freshman is going to have to go through growing pains at some point. Would have been easier to do so while Robbins was healthy. Nobody has been able to explain logically why Dort had 4 or fewer minutes in 9 of the 13 pre-conference games. It is almost certain that more of his minutes would not have negatively changed the outcome of those games.OldDude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:18 am Charleston :
"tell us the effect of not having Liam for next 6 weeks and what a good coach can do to make up for that loss."
Seriously , the question of the season. Man, I wish I knew and I am sure CJS wishes he knew as well. I think with Liam protecting the rim, we could have won last night. Coach has a real challenge on this. Not sure I see QMB at all able to help in any major way. Give Dort big minutes and hope he is a quick learner ? Might at least keep him out of the portal ; I have concerns here as to all the freshmen.
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Re: Honest question
I heard from someone on the inside that a few of the freshman were having a lot of trouble learning the schemes- and CJS said something about that in the press conference last night (they weren't sharing the ball the way we needed them to do ). I got the impression they weren't going to get pre-conference playing time until they did what they needed to do in practice.
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Re: Honest question
Coach tells me in practice (presumably) that he wants me to pass/share the ball more. I have been practicing now, with this very coach, for almost 4 months now, with countless repetitions. So I pass the ball more in practice. What's so hard about that? What am I missing?Foreverhopeful wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 3:19 pm I heard from someone on the inside that a few of the freshman were having a lot of trouble learning the schemes- and CJS said something about that in the press conference last night (they weren't sharing the ball the way we needed them to do ). I got the impression they weren't going to get pre-conference playing time until they did what they needed to do in practice.