a few positive vibes

[dore74]

In answer to Jason’s question re CJS’ future here I suspect that the remainder of the season is big.
Our “preseason” record left much to be desired and as noted by all this isn’t a young team and losing to teams with KenPoms in the lower tiers isn’t good. Looking past this year, given the lack of playing time of the frosh one wonders what he really thinks of their capabilities—I can’t imagine management doesn’t wonder the same. Lastly the poor attendance at games and the lack of enthusiasm for the program locally are not good factors—-a problem CJS really inherited
The early league upsets give me a bit of hope that we can have a respectable showing, say 6 to 8 wins. If so I think he stays. If not I’m not so sure the administration doesn’t go in a different direction. I, frankly, was pleased with his hiring and still generally think he can do this. But as the saying goes…you are what your record says you are.

[commadore]

In answer to Jason’s question re CJS’ future here I suspect that the remainder of the season is big.
Our “preseason” record left much to be desired and as noted by all this isn’t a young team and losing to teams with KenPoms in the lower tiers isn’t good. Looking past this year, given the lack of playing time of the frosh one wonders what he really thinks of their capabilities—I can’t imagine management doesn’t wonder the same. Lastly the poor attendance at games and the lack of enthusiasm for the program locally are not good factors—-a problem CJS really inherited
The early league upsets give me a bit of hope that we can have a respectable showing, say 6 to 8 wins. If so I think he stays. If not I’m not so sure the administration doesn’t go in a different direction. I, frankly, was pleased with his hiring and still generally think he can do this. But as the saying goes…you are what your record says you are.

But has done nothing to help.

[VandyManners]

I do not have anything to analyze about this game. I will take the W. Any SEC win for me is awesome. And I think Liam is starting to heat up, which bodes well for us.

[doubledore9603]

for all the malarkey about CJS and his lack of building a fan base, I think we need to look a bit broader at other factors that are really driving it.

1 - Local competition with other sporting events for people's time/interest. Between the preds, MLS, the Sounds, Titans, people only have so much time to give.
2 - ticket prices...season tix jumped a few years ago, and it's just not the bargain it once was.
3 - game times...6pm weekday starts seem nice until you try to make it there in Nashville rush hour traffic and deal with the additional headaches of the parking garages on campus at 530 when the daytime employees are trying to leave.
4 - cost of concessions at games...I love the $2 specials we've had, but $7 for a soda? Seriously? Kill the plastic "souvenir cup" and charge me $3. Oh, and PLEASE take away the "add a tip" at the register nonsense when I pay with a credit card. I tip 15% at a full-service restaurant..this is a 30-second interaction; at the very least, make it clear who actually gets that tip.
5 - the game atmosphere in Memorial. I love the old gym...but the aural assault of the dj, relentless "jump up and down if you want a freebie", etc needs to be toned WAY DOWN...I'm at the gym to see the game and be able to talk to my kid during the game breaks; if I want yell at someone over a dj, I'll go to a club. If you can make lots of noise for a pizza or t-shirt so the arena sounds loud when the cameras turn back on from tv commercial, try making some noise for the team. We're conditioning fans all wrong.

Some one (likely some recent CA transplant) is going to reply "we need to replace Memorial"...so I'll proactively respond. Our gym has pine bench seating, terrible acoustics, and a downright wonky layout; it also has charm, history and magic...and gosh darn it, we like it! Now get rid of those interior corridors, make people enter through the right door, and paint this at center court.

Good day to all!

[VUaskew]

I agree on most of this.

Teach the band to lay "Sweet Georgia Brown".

Sack the annoying DJ.

Sack the blonde who does the in-game crap. "Allll riggghhht, now we're..."

lower concessions prices considerably. I spent $14+ for two dogs and a regular soda the other night.

make the default game time 7PM. I understand TV has a lot to do with this.

[OldDude]

Good grief , doubledore, do you have my living room bugged ? Great post top to bottom. 6PM game times are idiotic and a complete capitulation to TV - screw the local fans. Rarely use concessions anymore as lines were usually slow and ,as you said, prices off putting. The give aways are so lame and the hawkers are frankly annoying and divert the focus from the game.

I do frankly like the corridors and easier movement through the gym, but, if they try to replace Memorial, they will find out how mean a 76 year old Vandy fan can be.

[charlestonalum]

students were not back so they will add to the attendance like they did last year - it became magic again with them there.

[utahozzie]

If Vanderbilt were 12-2 the gym would be packed….people are tired of losing and wasting time.

[Nashmann]

Lots of excuses and some valid....to a point, but the bottom line is crappy team(s) have added to it the most!

[geeznotagain]

In answer to Jason’s question re CJS’ future here I suspect that the remainder of the season is big.
Our “preseason” record left much to be desired and as noted by all this isn’t a young team and losing to teams with KenPoms in the lower tiers isn’t good. Looking past this year, given the lack of playing time of the frosh one wonders what he really thinks of their capabilities—I can’t imagine management doesn’t wonder the same. Lastly the poor attendance at games and the lack of enthusiasm for the program locally are not good factors—-a problem CJS really inherited
The early league upsets give me a bit of hope that we can have a respectable showing, say 6 to 8 wins. If so I think he stays. If not I’m not so sure the administration doesn’t go in a different direction. I, frankly, was pleased with his hiring and still generally think he can do this. But as the saying goes…you are what your record says you are.

Someone who thinks the Dores will win 6-8 SEC games, and bets accordingly, can make a lot of money.

[charlestonalum]

I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. We have one and hope for at least 5 more. Every one we get from here on out will be most welcome.

[Jason94]

I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. We have one and hope for at least 5 more. Every one we get from here on out will be most welcome.

Assuming that this comes to pass we end up with a 6-12 SEC record and no post season. That in my mind would be completely unacceptable if we are seeing similar amounts of PT for QMB, Ansong and Thomas that we did in the USC game, and zero minutes for Dort, Dia and Lewis. If the rotations remain the same, I would have to see at least 8 SEC wins this season and a post-season appearance. If we cannot get at least 8 wins in a non-rebuilding year with a rotation full of JR's and SR's, then I would move on. A postseason appearance would at least keep up momentum and allow recruiting to improve, and I assume he would have no choice but to play freshman/sophomores next season. It would mean that we are very unlikely to make the touranment next season, but if he manages to squeeze 8 wins out of the rotation he seems committed to playing then anything would be possible.

[roanoke]

I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. We have one and hope for at least 5 more. Every one we get from here on out will be most welcome.

Assuming that this comes to pass we end up with a 6-12 SEC record and no post season. That in my mind would be completely unacceptable if we are seeing similar amounts of PT for QMB, Ansong and Thomas that we did in the USC game, and zero minutes for Dort, Dia and Lewis. If the rotations remain the same, I would have to see at least 8 SEC wins this season and a post-season appearance. If we cannot get at least 8 wins in a non-rebuilding year with a rotation full of JR's and SR's, then I would move on. A postseason appearance would at least keep up momentum and allow recruiting to improve, and I assume he would have no choice but to play freshman/sophomores next season. It would mean that we are very unlikely to make the touranment next season, but if he manages to squeeze 8 wins out of the rotation he seems committed to playing then anything would be possible.

If it is possible to agree and disagree with you at the same time: I do.

This Schrodinger’s cat of a response is not meant to be snide. I agree with you 100% if your fundamental premise is correct. I suspect that your premise that Stack is happy with his rotation is wrong. I think his hand was forced by injuries, close games and, probably, some sub-expectation play by some of the younger guys. Part of that problem was putting groups of inexperienced guys in at the same time. It is better if they could play with an experienced lineup.

Coach now finds himself in the position of needing to win now and develop freshmen so he doesn’t lose them. Smith is getting plenty of playing time. I feel sure Shelby will get more. Dort and Dia need more, but also need to earn it. In that regard some of us will scream when he puts in a bunch of subs when we are down 15 with 7 minutes left. It will not be “quitting.” It will be developing and making the best of a difficult situation.

That is what will have to happen in some blow-outs. At the same time, Ansong is delivering. QMB does some things nobody else does. Thomas can shoot on the right night. It is a tricky problem. A problem that a properly officiated VCU game and a routine win against Grambling would make easier. Those games are the difference between 10-4 and where we are. Stack’s seat would be much more comfortable at 10-4.

Just the same, you are 100% right - if we have a 6-win season and fail to develop the young guys at all, this would be disastrous. And likely would have disastrous consequences in the future.

[Jason94]

I am prepared to be pleasantly surprised. We have one and hope for at least 5 more. Every one we get from here on out will be most welcome.

Assuming that this comes to pass we end up with a 6-12 SEC record and no post season. That in my mind would be completely unacceptable if we are seeing similar amounts of PT for QMB, Ansong and Thomas that we did in the USC game, and zero minutes for Dort, Dia and Lewis. If the rotations remain the same, I would have to see at least 8 SEC wins this season and a post-season appearance. If we cannot get at least 8 wins in a non-rebuilding year with a rotation full of JR's and SR's, then I would move on. A postseason appearance would at least keep up momentum and allow recruiting to improve, and I assume he would have no choice but to play freshman/sophomores next season. It would mean that we are very unlikely to make the touranment next season, but if he manages to squeeze 8 wins out of the rotation he seems committed to playing then anything would be possible.

If it is possible to agree and disagree with you at the same time: I do.

This Schrodinger’s cat of a response is not meant to be snide. I agree with you 100% if your fundamental premise is correct. I suspect that your premise that Stack is happy with his rotation is wrong. I think his hand was forced by injuries, close games and, probably, some sub-expectation play by some of the younger guys. Part of that problem was putting groups of inexperienced guys in at the same time. It is better if they could play with an experienced lineup.

Coach now finds himself in the position of needing to win now and develop freshmen so he doesn’t lose them. Smith is getting plenty of playing time. I feel sure Shelby will get more. Dort and Dia need more, but also need to earn it. In that regard some of us will scream when he puts in a bunch of subs when we are down 15 with 7 minutes left. It will not be “quitting.” It will be developing and making the best of a difficult situation.

That is what will have to happen in some blow-outs. At the same time, Ansong is delivering. QMB does some things nobody else does. Thomas can shoot on the right night. It is a tricky problem. A problem that a properly officiated VCU game and a routine win against Grambling would make easier. Those games are the difference between 10-4 and where we are. Stack’s seat would be much more comfortable at 10-4.

Just the same, you are 100% right - if we have a 6-win season and fail to develop the young guys at all, this would be disastrous. And likely would have disastrous consequences in the future.

You either have to take your lumps early or later on. I think CJS' main error was not playing his freshmen early on in the games where they should have gotten a lot of opportunities to make mistakes. I get that Ansong is active, but he is essential a 6'-4" tweener who cannot shoot from outside. There just enough that he is doing in his time on the court that is the difference between winning and losing for this team, and the cost is development of Smith, Dia or Shelby. Similarly for QMB - QMB is a solid role player who is acceptable when you have a shot eater like Pippen or Saben Lee. But the fact is that he won't shoot the ball and can essentially be ignored on the offensive end. He also is not enough of a rebounder or shot blocker to make up for his absence on the offensive end. Additionally, Dort appears to be both of those, and desperately needs to learn how to play live games without fouling. QMB is at his ceiling while Dort has barely scratched the surface but isn't playing.

Your assessment of Thomas is also generous. He doesn't pass the eye test - he is not a good ballhandler, is too slight and lacks quickness to be a good defender at his size, cannot score inside the arc due to this lack of size and quickness, nor does he draw any fouls, because opponents have no need to foul him since he puts so little pressure on the defense outside of the threat of his three point shot. This is the definition of a role player, and Thomas has been struggling for the last season and a half at the one thing he is supposed to be great at. He needs to shoot well over 40% from three to be useful and he is right around 33% for the last two seasons. And since we don't get defense, rebounds, assists or steals from him, I stuggle to see how unready any freshman could be to have Thomas get more than 8 minutes per game. Right now all Shelby has done is shoot threes and hit about 35% - that right there completely replaces Thomas, but with a player who has a much higher ceiling.

At some point when you've given the upperclassemen a lot of minutes and it just isn't working isn't it time to play the talented freshmen? The other thing that is strange is that it was obvious that it would be quite difficult to build a tournament level team while giving players like Thomas, QMB and Ansong major roles. They are great kids, but talent wise they pale in comparison to a lot of the other players in this league.

[MrMemorial]

Approx. 7% of the players in the SEC this season are hitting 40% or better from three.

Many of the ones who are hitting 40+ are transfers from mid-majors for whatever that is worth.

[Ndorefin]

The biggest problem with inexperienced players is turnovers. That is why Thomas is getting his pt….he doesnt turn the ball over. I would really like to see Lewis get more pt, but we really dont know how healthy he is.

[UltimateVUFan]

I get that Ansong is active, but he is essential a 6'-4" tweener who cannot shoot from outside.

Not disputing your overall premise re: Ansong, but after going 1-1 today he is 4-7 on the season on 3PT. I know his previous season stats indicate that he is over performing and the low volume may be misleading. However, one could also argue he is clearly picking his spots and shooting well so far. I liked seeing Shelby receive far more time and attempts today, but Ansong did what he needed to do in a winnable game today.

[Versus75]

3 for 3 shooting if he got the goaltending call.

[mathguy]

In answer to Jason’s question re CJS’ future here I suspect that the remainder of the season is big.
Our “preseason” record left much to be desired and as noted by all this isn’t a young team and losing to teams with KenPoms in the lower tiers isn’t good. Looking past this year, given the lack of playing time of the frosh one wonders what he really thinks of their capabilities—I can’t imagine management doesn’t wonder the same. Lastly the poor attendance at games and the lack of enthusiasm for the program locally are not good factors—-a problem CJS really inherited
The early league upsets give me a bit of hope that we can have a respectable showing, say 6 to 8 wins. If so I think he stays. If not I’m not so sure the administration doesn’t go in a different direction. I, frankly, was pleased with his hiring and still generally think he can do this. But as the saying goes…you are what your record says you are.

Question of CJS' future? Really? Long term or immediate future?

I've said it before and I'll say it again ... in year 4 of Stack's tenure, this is going to be the season in which we weren't better than the year before. Next year we lose Robbins, which will hurt, but have hopes that Dort will be sliding into a much bigger role. Manjon and QMB are great guys ... love 'em ... but they aren't exactly setting the world on fire for us. It will be a shame to lose Wright. But honestly, he looked better last year than this year. And his departure will open up more time for our current freshmen who are the future of the program (I hope!!).

I will freely admit that it is yet to be determined if Stack is the long-term answer as our coach. This is year 4. Does he get another 4 and make it to year 8? Honestly, I'd say that's 50-50. But I'd be shocked if he isn't back for year 5.

... though next year some specific expectations might be in place if he wants to see year 6...

[A32Win]

How long was that extension Stack received before the start of this season?