a few positive vibes

[roanoke]

I am not getting carried away with our SEC win. I know the rest of the SEC slate will be difficult.

At the same time, it is refreshing to see the team improve - which it certainly has done lately.

Manjon is a really good player - and floor general. Lawrence is also developing solidly. Both of these guys can get to the hoop. Robbins is simply outstanding when allowed to play - refs can take him out of a game easily in SEC play. I think that is why he is coming off the bench - Stack doesn’t particularly trust SEC refs and he shouldn’t. It is the haunting of the VCU game, perhaps, but Robbins is still getting plenty of minutes. Had some nifty assists last night too. A very healthy stat line.

Stute leads the league in 3 point shooting - and he is a definite threat whenever he has the ball. He has some work to do on d. But he is still a solid performer. And Wright had an outstanding game last night. He basically single-handedly shut down a lottery pick defensively in the second half. He also wanted the ball and hit the key shot in crunch time. A good sign he is getting healthy. This is a really solid core 5.

QMB is a conundrum. He is great at setting picks, rebounding and being a glue guy. He has a lot of trouble in offensive pick and rolls and catching passes. We’d be better off leaving him to what he does best. Ansong is sort of under the radar - but really good when called upon. We ran a lot of plays with these guys setting picks last night - we looked good. Not sure if that was us being sharp, or a function of SC’s d being vulnerable? Still, good to know we can do it.

Part of our team problem is that many backups feel compelled to come in and make an impact - this translates to poor shot selection sometimes. I can’t blame them - but several need to be a bit more disciplined. Still, Smith and Shelby are exciting and it is hard to imagine Shelby won’t start getting more minutes. I like Thomas, but he didn’t have a good game last night - He is a great weapon when hot. When he is off, the young guys will likely start eating into his time.

Bottom line, despite some criticism of the rotation, we won last night because of depth. We wore them out - fouled them out and survived. This happened despite 9-20 free throw shooting in regulation and SC shooting well above their norm from deep. I savor the win. At the same time, we did not succeed in extending leads when we could have put this one away. Killer instinct is still needed. But last night at crunch time, we had three guys who wanted the ball. That’s improvement. It is easy to criticize - and we will take our share of lumps. But we won a must-win game. And that doesn’t always happen…

[Jason94]

I am not getting carried away with our SEC win. I know the rest of the SEC slate will be difficult.

At the same time, it is refreshing to see the team improve - which it certainly has done lately.

Manjon is a really good player - and floor general. Lawrence is also developing solidly. Both of these guys can get to the hoop. Robbins is simply outstanding when allowed to play - refs can take him out of a game easily in SEC play. I think that is why he is coming off the bench - Stack doesn’t particularly trust SEC refs and he shouldn’t. It is the haunting of the VCU game, perhaps, but Robbins is still getting plenty of minutes. Had some nifty assists last night too. A very healthy stat line.

Stute leads the league in 3 point shooting - and he is a definite threat whenever he has the ball. He has some work to do on d. But he is still a solid performer. And Wright had an outstanding game last night. He basically single-handedly shut down a lottery pick defensively in the second half. He also wanted the ball and hit the key shot in crunch time. A good sign he is getting healthy. This is a really solid core 5.

QMB is a conundrum. He is great at setting picks, rebounding and being a glue guy. He has a lot of trouble in offensive pick and rolls and catching passes. We’d be better off leaving him to what he does best. Ansong is sort of under the radar - but really good when called upon. We ran a lot of plays with these guys setting picks last night - we looked good. Not sure if that was us being sharp, or a function of SC’s d being vulnerable? Still, good to know we can do it.

Part of our team problem is that many backups feel compelled to come in and make an impact - this translates to poor shot selection sometimes. I can’t blame them - but several need to be a bit more disciplined. Still, Smith and Shelby are exciting and it is hard to imagine Shelby won’t start getting more minutes. I like Thomas, but he didn’t have a good game last night - He is a great weapon when hot. When he is off, the young guys will likely start eating into his time.

Bottom line, despite some criticism of the rotation, we won last night because of depth. We wore them out - fouled them out and survived. This happened despite 9-20 free throw shooting in regulation and SC shooting well above their norm from deep. I savor the win. At the same time, we did not succeed in extending leads when we could have put this one away. Killer instinct is still needed. But last night at crunch time, we had three guys who wanted the ball. That’s improvement. It is easy to criticize - and we will take our share of lumps. But we won a must-win game. And that doesn’t always happen…

I agree that it was a gutty win following what could have been a backbreaking last second play in regulation. USC is very shallow in their rotations, definitely not typical for an SEC team. They have 4 starters averaging more minutes than Manjon, who is tops on our team in minutes per game. The issue is that USC is not a good team. They have lost to Colorado St by 32, Davidson by 9, Furman by 19, GW by 14, UAB by 14 and ECU by 8. None of these teams will make the tournament as an at-large team and USC has gotten blown out by over half of them. The fact that they took us to OT at home is not a good sign overall though it is better than us losing.

This game was must win in the sense that if we couldn't beat USC at home then we would struggle to win any game in the SEC and a 0-7 start would have been a real possibility. And while QMB and Ansong do some nice things, it is difficult to see how they are that much better than Dort and Dia and the both certainly have much lower ceilings than the latter, plus the latter will hopefully be on our roster for two or three more seasons.

It is tough that we are looking for reasons to be happy when the worst team in the league took us to OT in our own gym. I hope that my fears are overblown and this team figures things out and plays significantly better than they have to this point and grabs some wins.

[roanoke]

Just to be clear: I think your fears are entirely justified.

At bottom, this team is a bit frustrating because we seem to lose focus when ahead, and frequently fall behind so we are digging out of a hole. Because we had so few laughers, and some health issues, the young guys did not get in the mix early except for Smith.

When we put together 40 minutes, we beat Pitt on the road. Pitt, for those who missed it, beat UVA last night. The problem is, unfocused and playing undisciplined, we are also quite capable of losing to Grambling. The SEC is largely a gauntlet and please don’t take my comments as a prediction we will dominate (or even break even.)

But the team does have promise - and to fulfill future promise, you are right - young guys need to play more. Similarly, I thought Stack ran more plays last night. I think he is recognizing, perhaps ruefully, that this team needs more plays (and offense with a purpose) or they will settle for low percentage shots. Similarly, the young guys need more appearances and Coach seems to be recognizing that too.

There will be some painful ones, I’m sure. But if we can’t celebrate 1-0, it could be a verrrry long conference season….

[UltimateVUFan]

Agree completely with the premise, Roanoke. We need to celebrate what and while we can with this team.
My hope is that Stack at least realizes the need to get the freshmen ample PT in the many games we are sure to lose once it becomes apparent the games are lost. Of course, that may mean simply conceding some games early on, but given the way the season has shaped up so far, I’d be okay with that.

[quasidiehardvandyfan]

Great points, Roanoke. The rest of my post is negative but I'll agree it was good to see an SEC win and there are at least signs of improvement in several of our players.

There is some evidence that Stack is learning, maybe, but I still don't get the starting lineup justification. We went down quickly to an awful SC team and then the "bench" was brought in to save the day.

I can sort of understand him trying to keep Robbins out of foul trouble early on (though I don't agree with it), but Thomas over Manjon is offensive at this point. I'm not going to trash the kid, but Thomas' stat line speaks for itself. Shelby should be eating into his minutes and Thomas should be a change of pace spark off the bench if we're down big.

Hoping Stack ends this lineup experiment, because against Mizzou, we'll be playing from behind quickly and I fear it'll be too big of a gap to recover from.

[geeznotagain]

There's no question that Dort has a higher upside than QMB. QMB is probably at his max production-wise. But IMO QMB give us a better chance to win at this time. How does Dort get better? By playing, of course. But he is such a "project" and a foul machine that it's hard to find the right time in a tight game. Sure wish he had gotten more minutes during the OOC schedule. Now it's a tough call for our coach for sure.

[charlestonalum]

That was a game SOV would have lost for sure after blowing the 5 point lead in regulation and totally fumbling away the regulation last play. But this team completely turned it around in overtime and flat out won it. They are still learning how to play without Pippen who for better or worse carried the team last year. I think we will continue to improve and that includes our coach's decision on who and when to start and substitute. As long as Stack can dress the part I am confident he will play the part. He is unconventional in attire and strategy and it is time we all accept that. We will find out if he can coach winning college BB in the coming few years. I hope so. In the end unconventional may be labeled innovative and winning style...

An example of the uncoventional planning last night was the calculation that a deeper team could wear out a shallower team by not starting the best players but having them available fresher at the end when the opponent was fouling out and running out of steam at the end. It worked.

[utahozzie]

Just to be clear: I think your fears are entirely justified.

At bottom, this team is a bit frustrating because we seem to lose focus when ahead, and frequently fall behind so we are digging out of a hole. Because we had so few laughers, and some health issues, the young guys did not get in the mix early except for Smith.

When we put together 40 minutes, we beat Pitt on the road. Pitt, for those who missed it, beat UVA last night. The problem is, unfocused and playing undisciplined, we are also quite capable of losing to Grambling. The SEC is largely a gauntlet and please don’t take my comments as a prediction we will dominate (or even break even.)

But the team does have promise - and to fulfill future promise, you are right - young guys need to play more. Similarly, I thought Stack ran more plays last night. I think he is recognizing, perhaps ruefully, that this team needs more plays (and offense with a purpose) or they will settle for low percentage shots. Similarly, the young guys need more appearances and Coach seems to be recognizing that too.

There will be some painful ones, I’m sure. But if we can’t celebrate 1-0, it could be a verrrry long conference season….

To be clear, the Pitt win was in Nashville but i understand your point…I’m with ya

[dore74]

For what its worth I saw the presser post SC on You Tube. Stack was adamant and one might say defensive when asked about the manner in which he puts in starters and subs. He made the points (as I remember them) that Robbins likes to see how the game is going before he goes in and that Wright was at his best playing 25-28 minutes and not 30-35. He noted that Manjon played the most of anyone regardless of his not starting and that these guys were on the court at the end when it mattered. He started his answer of the question stating that he knew these guys best and that he was doing so with the future of the program in mind. No one at the press conference asked about the use of freshman BTW.

[docdore]

That was a game SOV would have lost for sure after blowing the 5 point lead in regulation and totally fumbling away the regulation last play. But this team completely turned it around in overtime and flat out won it. They are still learning how to play without Pippen who for better or worse carried the team last year. I think we will continue to improve and that includes our coach's decision on who and when to start and substitute. As long as Stack can dress the part I am confident he will play the part. He is unconventional in attire and strategy and it is time we all accept that. We will find out if he can coach winning college BB in the coming few years. I hope so. In the end unconventional may be labeled innovative and winning style...

An example of the uncoventional planning last night was the calculation that a deeper team could wear out a shallower team by not starting the best players but having them available fresher at the end when the opponent was fouling out and running out of steam at the end. It worked.

truedat, but barely (at memorial).

[Nashmann]

Starting Thomas is insane. Sorry. He is a bench player at most. Oh, sometimes he gets a streak on hitting 3's but not very often. The rest of his game is not very good at best! Shelby or Lewis should eat into his minutes. Manjon seems to have a motor to play 30+ minutes a game. Dort and Dia should have a few minutes a game as well. Just don't them all in together.

[alathIN]

Re Lawrence improvement - Tom Stephenson on AoG pointed out that his 10 points came on 11 FG and 7 FT attempts. He makes some good plays but his percentage of good plays is not high.

[Jason94]

Re Lawrence improvement - Tom Stephenson on AoG pointed out that his 10 points came on 11 FG and 7 FT attempts. He makes some good plays but his percentage of good plays is not high.

Apparently CJS blocked AoG on twitter, which is insane.

Note that if you read AoG or VandySports, you will find that they are far harder on CJS than Vandymania is. I'm still of the mind that CJS could turn this thing around - both other sites are not.

[cjdore]

Just to be clear: I think your fears are entirely justified.

"At bottom, this team is a bit frustrating because we seem to lose focus when ahead, and frequently fall behind so we are digging out of a hole. Because we had so few laughers, and some health issues, the young guys did not get in the mix early except for Smith."
When we put together 40 minutes, we beat Pitt on the road. Pitt, for those who missed it, beat UVA last night. The problem is, unfocused and playing undisciplined, we are also quite capable of losing to Grambling. The SEC is largely a gauntlet and please don’t take my comments as a prediction we will dominate (or even break even.)

But the team does have promise - and to fulfill future promise, you are right - young guys need to play more. Similarly, I thought Stack ran more plays last night. I think he is recognizing, perhaps ruefully, that this team needs more plays (and offense with a purpose) or they will settle for low percentage shots. Similarly, the young guys need more appearances and Coach seems to be recognizing that too.

There will be some painful ones, I’m sure. But if we can’t celebrate 1-0, it could be a verrrry long conference season….

Could it possibly be that we dig ourself in a hole because CJS starts our games with our best players on the bench. We get 8-10 points down and then in comes Robbins, Manjon, Wright, etc

[UltimateVUFan]

Re Lawrence improvement - Tom Stephenson on AoG pointed out that his 10 points came on 11 FG and 7 FT attempts. He makes some good plays but his percentage of good plays is not high.

That’s a sample size of one game. Of course, if you look at the team’s season stats, Lawrence has the fifth most FGA (104) and the third best FG% at 48.1. Robbins and QMB are the two who surpass him at 54% and 50% respectively, though QMB has about a third of the attempts (36). Put into greater perspective, his 27% night against USC was an outlier. He’s been a solid contributor so far this season - or at least, about as solid as anyone not named Robbins.

[MrMemorial]

Re Lawrence improvement - Tom Stephenson on AoG pointed out that his 10 points came on 11 FG and 7 FT attempts. He makes some good plays but his percentage of good plays is not high.

Apparently CJS blocked AoG on twitter, which is insane.

Note that if you read AoG or VandySports, you will find that they are far harder on CJS than Vandymania is. I'm still of the mind that CJS could turn this thing around - both other sites are not.

They (VS posters) also campaigned beyond hard for Will Healy to be the football coach and he failed miserably at UNC-C. Apparently they don't have the best judgement.

[Ndorefin]

Of course, Thomas is not an SEC starting point guard, but he is doing what the coaches want from him….which is take care of the basketball! He is averaging one turnover a game and although he doesnt have good assists numbers, he does have 5 steals. His experience has been his biggest asset and Lewis appears to be the only alternative….Shelby is not a point guard at this time. I dont believe Lewis is at full strength and Thomas has shown he can be trusted with the basketball thus far. This is what we have talentwise and we are getting the best out of Thomas….it would be a big plus if he could start hitting his 3s.

[Jason94]

Re Lawrence improvement - Tom Stephenson on AoG pointed out that his 10 points came on 11 FG and 7 FT attempts. He makes some good plays but his percentage of good plays is not high.

Apparently CJS blocked AoG on twitter, which is insane.

Note that if you read AoG or VandySports, you will find that they are far harder on CJS than Vandymania is. I'm still of the mind that CJS could turn this thing around - both other sites are not.

They (VS posters) also campaigned beyond hard for Will Healy to be the football coach and he failed miserably at UNC-C. Apparently they don't have the best judgement.

Eh, posters here once wanted Jim Groce for head coach - nobody's perfect. What signs do we see that we are going to be successful this season or (more importantly) next season? I felt coming in this season that we were going to be in a transition season with Pippen being gone. What are we transitioning to next season? Manjon, Wright and Robbins are all listed as Seniors and Robbins is out of eligibility for sure. Who gets the majority of the minutes at their positions next season and what can we expect out of them? There is still time to develop Dort, Shelby, Lewis and Dia. 8 total minutes for those 4 in the USC game isn't going to give them an understanding of SEC basketball or fully reveal the weaknesses in their games that will need to be corrected.

[MrMemorial]

Jim Croce's songs and his legacy: His record sales have surpassed the 45 million mark. That's pretty good. Many are too young too remember him. That's a shame.

John Groce's accomplishments include 282 wins as a college basketball coach, 60% winning %. A number of NCAA and NIT's. 2020 conference coach of the year.

They don't really look alike...not sure how they could be confused.



Tip: the bald guy coaches ball....the guy with the Frank Zappa mustache sings (RIP - 1973)

[Jason94]

Jim Croce's songs and his legacy: His record sales have surpassed the 45 million mark. That's pretty good. Many are too young too remember him. That's a shame.

John Groce's accomplishments include 282 wins as a college basketball coach, 60% winning %. A number of NCAA and NIT's. 2020 conference coach of the year.

They don't really look alike...not sure how they could be confused.



Tip: the bald guy coaches ball....the guy with the Frank Zappa mustache sings (RIP - 1973)

Sorry for mistyping his name. But nothing that was posted on AoG or Vandysports is any less valid than what is posted here, as you apparently are conceding with this post. Some here were calling for CKS head in the midst of going to 5 tournament in six seasons. But now we look at our record and say "it happens". Amazing how some can go from wanting an actual good coach to be gone to complete acceptance of whatever we have right now. We went from a .500 SEC record being completely unacceptable to being ok and patient with a .250 SEC record. Is there a point where CJS's record might actually come into question?