Jason94 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:13 pm
I think we can get past that and still have a good season, but that (the blowout Marist loss after Marist just lost 87-44 to unranked West Virginia) was the worst loss in Vanderbilt Men's basketball history by a pretty decent margin.
FIFY
That is a narrow way of looking at things but doing so doesn't make it correct. We were a bad team in 2013, having lost the entire starting lineup from the season before. the game was ugly and on a neutral site, and we had just gotten blown out to Oregon and Davidson in our previous two outings, and sat with a kenpom ranking of 110 going into the game. We went into the game as a 6 point favorite, and marist had a 1 in 4 chance in winning the game outright. It was a really bad loss in that we couldn't shoot, but not a shocking loss.
Going into Southern Miss we were a 20+ point favorite with a top 100 kenpom ranking (74) going against a Southern Miss team ranked in the 300's and over a 97% chance of winning the game. Even sleepwalking through this game the worst previous VU teams wins by 5. Top 100 teams losing to sub 300 ranked teams just DOESN'T happen. Southern Miss hadn't beaten a top 100 team in the last three seasons. Heck, they have just 24 wins over those seasons combined. It worse because we have a great recruiting class and tournament ambitions and lost to a really bad team on our home court by double digits.
I've been following Vanderbilt basketball for well over 30 years and we've never lost to a team as lowly rated as Southern Miss before. Marist is closest, but it isn't particularly close, and it was near the low point of basketball under CKS. We should be ascendent under CJS, so for us to lose to Southern Miss in the manner in which we did was quite shocking, and therefore is easily the worst loss we've had in the last 3+ decades.
I think the unfolding of the season will gauge how bad the USM loss was.
To me, a kenpom rating early in the season without having seen teams play, and not accounting for all the roster influx now all too common in cbb, is pretty worthless. It's just a number on a screen and a reflection of the prior year.
Did Vandy play like arse? Yes. Glad to see it didn't faze them against Temple. A road win over a power conference team is something we should be talking about.
Kenpon rankings are a joke, especially this early in the season! Anyone using their rankings are only trying to justify their statements, which are as inaccurate as Ken’s rating system. Southern Miss has, at least, 2 players who might be starters for us. Crowley was a 4-star who had committed to VU, but went to Ole Miss…started several games and scored 15 against us last year. Haase is a 6’9” grad transfer who played 2 years at USC before transferring to Mercer. He was a 40% 3 point shooter, scored 41 points in a game last year and has scored over 1200 points in his career. Most every player on their team is a transfer and Kenpon obviously hasn’t figured out how to account for the “new” age of college basketball. Hey….I have followed college basketball for over 60 years, if that means anything!
VUaskew wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 9:42 am
I think the unfolding of the season will gauge how bad the USM loss was.
To me, a kenpom rating early in the season without having seen teams play, and not accounting for all the roster influx now all too common in cbb, is pretty worthless. It's just a number on a screen and a reflection of the prior year.
Did Vandy play like arse? Yes. Glad to see it didn't faze them against Temple. A road win over a power conference team is something we should be talking about.
I wouldn't say it was worthless - it is an educated guess, which is better than most of us (who knew next to nothing about Southern Miss' program prior to the game). It is possible that they could go from being one of the worst teams in CBB to a very bad team, but is it likely they would go to anything other than a very damaging loss on our tournament resume?
And i've talked about the Temple win as well - I discuss many aspects of the program as I am able to discuss multiple things without much issue. But that loss is has to be countered by multiple wins against some tournament teams as well as road wins against tournament teams. When it is all said and done, it is unlikely that any team in the field will have a loss as bad as Southern Miss. And that is not a particularly bold statement.
i think it's clear that at this point our team is not an NCAA tourney team. The SM loss was really bad and underlies this. Our Memphis loss and OT win at Temple are part of the same story, but place us at least in a less bad light.
Seems to me it will take much improvement particularly among the frosh and other new comers for us to take that step. While the odds are against us doing so, each of Stack's teams have improved as the year's gone on so having hope is not unreasonable. A successful SEC season could well make up for this really bad loss, which thankfully came early in the season. But, per Jason's point, it is for certain a millstone the team will need to contend with.
Ndorefin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:17 am
Kenpon rankings are a joke, especially this early in the season! Anyone using their rankings are only trying to justify their statements, which are as inaccurate as Ken’s rating system. Southern Miss has, at least, 2 players who might be starters for us. Crowley was a 4-star who had committed to VU, but went to Ole Miss…started several games and scored 15 against us last year. Haase is a 6’9” grad transfer who played 2 years at USC before transferring to Mercer. He was a 40% 3 point shooter, scored 41 points in a game last year and has scored over 1200 points in his career. Most every player on their team is a transfer and Kenpon obviously hasn’t figured out how to account for the “new” age of college basketball. Hey….I have followed college basketball for over 60 years, if that means anything!
Sorry, Jason….you are better than that!
USM is way better than advertised. Marist was not. So Jason is fully incorrect in his long megillah. (sp?)
The USM loss will be meaningless if we have a decent season, like .500 in conference play. Most all teams will have one or more “bad” losses before all is said and done! Colorado lost to Grambling (Kenpom #300) before they beat ut!
dore74 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:13 pm
i think it's clear that at this point our team is not an NCAA tourney team. The SM loss was really bad and underlies this. Our Memphis loss and OT win at Temple are part of the same story, but place us at least in a less bad light.
Seems to me it will take much improvement particularly among the frosh and other new comers for us to take that step. While the odds are against us doing so, each of Stack's teams have improved as the year's gone on so having hope is not unreasonable. A successful SEC season could well make up for this really bad loss, which thankfully came early in the season. But, per Jason's point, it is for certain a millstone the team will need to contend with.
Ndorefin wrote: ↑Thu Nov 17, 2022 1:49 pm
The USM loss will be meaningless if we have a decent season, like .500 in conference play. Most all teams will have one or more “bad” losses before all is said and done! Colorado lost to Grambling (Kenpom #300) before they beat ut!
The heavily decimated and rebuilding Murray stunned 24th ranked Texas A&M today. #2 ranked Gonzaga blown out big. South Carolina destroyed by a mid-major by 32 points.