We hardly knew him.

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DeefromAtlanta
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We hardly knew him.

Post by DeefromAtlanta »

The Cleveland Cavaliers have agreed to a five-year, $193 million maximum designated rookie contract extension with guard Darius Garland. The deal could be worth as much as $231 million, which is the largest in franchise history.\\Good for him.

Good for him.


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Post by VandyPhile »

We hardly knew him, but he sure was exciting while we had him. We sure have had the snake bite after us for a while.
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Post by katmai »

That one semester at Vanderbilt is really paying off for him.
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Post by commadore »

Maybe he will give back to his old school. LOL
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Post by LawoftheWest »

Just think, if he weren't injured, Our previous coach might still be at Vandy, mired in even more losing.basketball. :twisted:

I remember seeing Garland in interviews and in practice. Not in person, but in videos. He came across as having fun playing basketball. He drew the other players to him.
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Re: We hardly knew him.

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LawoftheWest wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:34 pm Just think, if he weren't injured, Our previous coach might still be at Vandy, mired in even more losing.basketball. :twisted:
Maybe. It's really fair to ask just how good/bad we would have been that year even with Garland. Would we have been 0-18? Certainly not. But having seen how that year turned out, do I think Garland was leading us to the NCAAs? No. No, I do not. Do I think he was leading us to a .500 record? No. No, I do not.

If Drew had a healthy Garland and *STILL* "led" us to 14-18 (5-13) following 12-20 (6-12) the previous year would that have given us more reason to retain him?
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Re: We hardly knew him.

Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:26 am
LawoftheWest wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:34 pm Just think, if he weren't injured, Our previous coach might still be at Vandy, mired in even more losing.basketball. :twisted:
Maybe. It's really fair to ask just how good/bad we would have been that year even with Garland. Would we have been 0-18? Certainly not. But having seen how that year turned out, do I think Garland was leading us to the NCAAs? No. No, I do not. Do I think he was leading us to a .500 record? No. No, I do not.

If Drew had a healthy Garland and *STILL* "led" us to 14-18 (5-13) following 12-20 (6-12) the previous year would that have given us more reason to retain him?
I think it is possible that he would have had a markedly better record with Garland given that he had build his entire scheme that season around him, and it is clear that Garland is the most talented player that has come through the program in decades. But we probably would have ended up around the 50th best team in the country, which is probably good for around a .500 record in the SEC, but not a tournament appearance, and with Garland moving on would have simply delayed the inevitable.
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Post by Doreknox »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:26 am
LawoftheWest wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:34 pm Just think, if he weren't injured, Our previous coach might still be at Vandy, mired in even more losing.basketball. :twisted:
Maybe. It's really fair to ask just how good/bad we would have been that year even with Garland. Would we have been 0-18? Certainly not. But having seen how that year turned out, do I think Garland was leading us to the NCAAs? No. No, I do not. Do I think he was leading us to a .500 record? No. No, I do not.

If Drew had a healthy Garland and *STILL* "led" us to 14-18 (5-13) following 12-20 (6-12) the previous year would that have given us more reason to retain him?
In my opinion, Garland would have led us to the NCAAs. He was most likely the best guard in the SEC that year and has always made his teammates better. He is now one of the best PGs in the NBA. Drew might indeed still be here, especially if he had gotten a similarly talented player to succeed Garland.
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Post by mathguy »

Doreknox wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:41 am
In my opinion, Garland would have led us to the NCAAs. He was most likely the best guard in the SEC that year and has always made his teammates better. He is now one of the best PGs in the NBA. Drew might indeed still be here, especially if he had gotten a similarly talented player to succeed Garland.
Maybe you and Jason are right. And at the beginning of that season I thought we could go the the NCAAs.

But now I know is we were *TERRIBLE* that season. Shittu was ... umm ... less than advertised. We lost a lot of games badly. We had a lot of games that we stayed close for a half until our opponents stopped toying with us. We were badly outclassed.

Hard for me to see us finishing 9-9 in the SEC because of 1 player, that's for sure. 7-11? Maybe. Possibly. But hard for me to see it.
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Post by commadore »

Doreknox wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:41 am
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:26 am
LawoftheWest wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:34 pm Just think, if he weren't injured, Our previous coach might still be at Vandy, mired in even more losing.basketball. :twisted:
Maybe. It's really fair to ask just how good/bad we would have been that year even with Garland. Would we have been 0-18? Certainly not. But having seen how that year turned out, do I think Garland was leading us to the NCAAs? No. No, I do not. Do I think he was leading us to a .500 record? No. No, I do not.

If Drew had a healthy Garland and *STILL* "led" us to 14-18 (5-13) following 12-20 (6-12) the previous year would that have given us more reason to retain him?
In my opinion, Garland would have led us to the NCAAs. He was most likely the best guard in the SEC that year and has always made his teammates better. He is now one of the best PGs in the NBA. Drew might indeed still be here, especially if he had gotten a similarly talented player to succeed Garland.
Disagree. I saw the home games he played and while he looked good, the team was weak. We beat teams that we formerly would have beaten by 40 by 15 or so and struggled to do that.
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Post by Jason94 »

mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:12 pm
Doreknox wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 9:41 am
In my opinion, Garland would have led us to the NCAAs. He was most likely the best guard in the SEC that year and has always made his teammates better. He is now one of the best PGs in the NBA. Drew might indeed still be here, especially if he had gotten a similarly talented player to succeed Garland.
Maybe you and Jason are right. And at the beginning of that season I thought we could go the the NCAAs.

But now I know is we were *TERRIBLE* that season. Shittu was ... umm ... less than advertised. We lost a lot of games badly. We had a lot of games that we stayed close for a half until our opponents stopped toying with us. We were badly outclassed.

Hard for me to see us finishing 9-9 in the SEC because of 1 player, that's for sure. 7-11? Maybe. Possibly. But hard for me to see it.
I do remember saying that the roster was not one that looked like a Final 4 roster prior to the season starting because we had essentially only 1 player returning who had been productive the previous season and were relying almost completely on the three freshmen and transfers to make a tournament run. Drew had easily as many issues with roster management as CJS did, and they were probably much worse when considering the talent he was recruiting. His misses with Austin and Moyer were also somewhat predictable as well. That and he developed nobody on the squad. Toye, Evans, Lee and Brown all played multiple seasons under CBD and were not really any better from the first day to the last. So who know what impact Garland might have had he stayed - I do know that it would have crashed and burned in 2020 assuming he wasn't able to pull in an NBA ready future all-star (which he likely wasn't).
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Post by Doreknox »

mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:12 pm
Hard for me to see us finishing 9-9 in the SEC because of 1 player...
We went 7-11 in the SEC last season with essentially one player and and Garland is better than Pippen.
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Re: We hardly knew him.

Post by mathguy »

Doreknox wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 8:53 am
mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:12 pm
Hard for me to see us finishing 9-9 in the SEC because of 1 player...
We went 7-11 in the SEC last season with essentially one player and and Garland is better than Pippen.
Yeah but ... while I sure wouldn't have wanted to see us last year without Pippen, I also really don't think we'd have been 0-18 either. Pippen wasn't worth 7 wins to us, and Garland sure wouldn't have been worth 9.
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Post by Doreknox »

mathguy wrote: Sun Jul 10, 2022 11:37 am Pippen wasn't worth 7 wins to us, and Garland sure wouldn't have been worth 9.
I'll have to disagree with you on both of your points, but I certainly respect your opinion.
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Re: We hardly knew him.

Post by MrMemorial »

Even without Garland, the 0-18 team had:

Matt Ryan (Boston Celtics)
Aaron Nesmith (Boston Celtics/Indiana Pacers)
Saben Lee (Detroit Pistons)
Simi Shittu (Grizz, Bulls, NBA G-league, international pro ball)**
Yanni Wetzell (extensive international pro ball)

My mother-in-law from the old country where they only know soccer could have done better than 0-18

**UPDATE: Simi is on TV right now playing for the Indiana Pacers Summer League team... 4 of 5 shooting and 7 rebounds in only 13 minutes. That is against Keegan Murray (1st round/4th pick).
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Re: We hardly knew him.

Post by Rudder01 »

i thought Baldwin had all the tools to make it in the nba. Garland and Nesmith didnt get enough games to judge really. we havent had a winning record in 2016 in sec so do not think it is a recruitment issue but it is amazing we still get these players in the door.
Last edited by Rudder01 on Tue Jul 12, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rudder01 wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:50 am i thought Baldwin had all the tools to make it in the nba. Garland and Nesmith didnt get enough games to judge really. we havent had a winning record in 2016 in sec so do not think it is a recruitment issue but it is amazing we still get these players in the door.
CKS recruited better than CVBK, but he was not a great recruiter. Basically he didn't have anyone who had any NBA success until Festus, and Festus was such a late bloomer that we were essentially lucky to get him, because not too many schools were aware of him when we recruited him. But Freije, Foster, Byars, Taylor, and Jenkins didn't have any significant success in the NBA and it wasn't until Jones at the very end that CKS had someone who has stuck around (and it has taken Jones several years to get there as he was pretty raw coming out of college given his overall newness to the game when he was recruited to us).

CBD OTOH in his very short tenure managed to have multiple player who either already have or are likely to exceed the success of everyone CKS had in his 17 seasons (with the exception of Jones). Garland, Lee and NeSmith all have see significant time on a roster and in Nesmith's case his time is largely limited by how good Boston is right now. Up until this recent class there was a pretty large dropoff in the freshmen recruiting of CJS, so hopefully this class will allow us to return to winning SEC records and tournament appearances. But remember that this class is good, but not historically good (as far as class rankings go). If two of the freshmen end up being major contributors on a good team this season that is a really good outcome.
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Post by MrMemorial »

If Baldwin was a bit younger, he might have got a look in the summer league. He's good enough but teams aren't big on starting over with a guy who will be 27 late next season. \

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhqaLVBkQPY
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Jason94 wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:05 am
Rudder01 wrote: Tue Jul 12, 2022 1:50 am i thought Baldwin had all the tools to make it in the nba. Garland and Nesmith didnt get enough games to judge really. we havent had a winning record in 2016 in sec so do not think it is a recruitment issue but it is amazing we still get these players in the door.
CKS recruited better than CVBK, but he was not a great recruiter. Basically he didn't have anyone who had any NBA success until Festus, and Festus was such a late bloomer that we were essentially lucky to get him, because not too many schools were aware of him when we recruited him. But Freije, Foster, Byars, Taylor, and Jenkins didn't have any significant success in the NBA and it wasn't until Jones at the very end that CKS had someone who has stuck around (and it has taken Jones several years to get there as he was pretty raw coming out of college given his overall newness to the game when he was recruited to us).

CBD OTOH in his very short tenure managed to have multiple player who either already have or are likely to exceed the success of everyone CKS had in his 17 seasons (with the exception of Jones). Garland, Lee and NeSmith all have see significant time on a roster and in Nesmith's case his time is largely limited by how good Boston is right now. Up until this recent class there was a pretty large dropoff in the freshmen recruiting of CJS, so hopefully this class will allow us to return to winning SEC records and tournament appearances. But remember that this class is good, but not historically good (as far as class rankings go). If two of the freshmen end up being major contributors on a good team this season that is a really good outcome.
Wasn't Luke Kornet a CKS recruit? I think he's made a penny or two in the league.
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Re: We hardly knew him.

Post by Rudder01 »

amazing how the recruitment does not reflect the form in last decade
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