Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

Post by Vandy187187 »

Ndorefin wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 7:27 pm Stack is working his behind off trying to replenish the backcourt, but who will commit knowing our past records and the hoops one has to jump thru to get admitted. I would be shocked if Kennedy had a shot to be admitted….even if he was smart enough, I don’t believe he would to put forth the effort. Most P5 transfers are looking for an opportunity to shine because they were wronged by their previous school…they believe their best chance is to be on a national power and we are not there yet. Our prior coach had destroyed any chance we had to be relevant and I’m afraid this job has become a rebuilding nightmare that will require some winning basketball to draw a prospect attention and we all know the attention span of teenagers these days. Stay patient and support our current coach!
Kennedy might deserve the benefit of the doubt, but with his track record of school jumping I'm not likely to give him one. I do think Stack deserves the benefit of the doubt based on what happens on the court.

But Stack does not deserve the benefit of the doubt recruiting when we lose entire classes and upperclassman to the transfer portal or NBA with no chance. It's not normal to lose entire classes, something must have went wrong it's just obvious or incompetence on that front


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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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AuricGoldfinger wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 3:52 pm Officially gone:

[tweet][/tweet]
Enjoy unrealistic fan expectations, mediocre on-court product, and a very realistic chance Coach Penny has stepped in some nasty violations poop.

Example:

Welcome to the M maaaaaaiiiiiiiiinnnnnnneee 901 is going to love you if you love it back... #GTG #OnceATigerAlwaysATiger let's get to the final 4... with u KD Dre Akot KAO starting 5 and Lawsons Malcom Mcadden Lomax off bench 8 seniors or super seniors 1 freshman We gon be TOUGH!
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

Post by VUaskew »

So Stack is terminally unique in this situation? He can't keep it together, but 300+ other coaches are?

Better get used to the uncertainty...
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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VUaskew wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:38 am So Stack is terminally unique in this situation? He can't keep it together, but 300+ other coaches are?

Better get used to the uncertainty...
He probably isn't unique, but I wouldn't compare him to the coaches at all 300+ schools either - mid majors and low majors probably have a much more difficult time right now with high majors picking off their best players in this environment, while high majors should have it as easy as ever, as they have the resources to hold onto their top players and any recruiting misses now are minimally impactful as those players tend to transfer out. Plus replacing them with experience is much easier than before where only the JUCO route existed without having to wait a redshirt season. A lot of high majors can essentially avoid rebuilding seasons. I don't know that we are ever going to be that type of school, but that also mean that we cannot fail at the traditional method of building a program which is developing your recruits.

So how is Stack doing compared to the 70 or so high major coaches? I'd think it wouldn't be in the top half at the moment. That is the issue. He's shown he can develop the players if he can hang on to them. Had he been better at that part of the job we'd already have been to the tournament under him by now.
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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Jason94 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:12 am So how is Stack doing compared to the 70 or so high major coaches? I'd think it wouldn't be in the top half at the moment.
Vanderbilt used to get transfers from Power 5 schools like VA, IU, Duke. Now we get them from the West Coast, C-USA or the A-10 Conferences. And some of them don't stay. Stack has brought in two players from Power Five schools (TCU and MN) that I am aware of and only one of them was any good. We have lost the majority of his recruits so far and are unable to replace them with top quality transfers. Unless things improve, recruiting and retention will prove to be CJS' s undoing
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

Post by Jason94 »

Doreknox wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 12:26 pm
Jason94 wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 11:12 am So how is Stack doing compared to the 70 or so high major coaches? I'd think it wouldn't be in the top half at the moment.
Vanderbilt used to get transfers from Power 5 schools like VA, IU, Duke. Now we get them from the West Coast, C-USA or the A-10 Conferences. And some of them don't stay. Stack has brought in two players from Power Five schools (TCU and MN) that I am aware of and only one of them was any good. We have lost the majority of his recruits so far and are unable to replace them with top quality transfers. Unless things improve, recruiting and retention will prove to be CJS' s undoing
The calculation has changed a bit, as previously we were committing 3 or 4 years of a scholarship for 2 or 3 years of eligibility. Therefore there had to be a really good fit and a very high benefit in doing so. With immediate eligibility for players the calculation changes and with the NIL there are financial incentives for really good mid-major players to play for high major programs instead of finishing out their careers at their original schools.

A player like Manjon is a great bridge between Pippen and Shelby since Pippen gave up two seasons of eligibility. This is how a coach can fill in gaps quickly when stuff happens. But to not have a proven sec-level starter at the SG on the roster is an issue. Even a player at a Max Evans, DJP or even a Dan Cage level would be something to work with. There have been a lot of transfers that hadn't worked out, but it is more concerning that move of the freshmen recruits haven't worked out - Pippen, Disu and Wright all worked out well in CJS' first class but two are now gone prior to their using up their eligibility. The second class has Stute who has worked out while Thomas and Lawrence have yet to show how they fit on a really good team. Last year's class crapped out. CJS didn't really recruit a scoring guard in this year's class either - so out of four classes we don't have a proven solution at that position.
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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Jason94 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pm
TwoSaints wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:05 am FYI, guys. The NBA draft isn't what it used to be. There are a few reasons why, but essentially the biggest one is because the game has changed so much that scouting is less effective overall. Second, the complexities of the salary cap and the new popularity of the two-way contract has really changed the game, especially for players taken outside of the second round. Many agents now would rather have their players be free agents than to sign with a team that wants them on a two-way contract. Free agency is actually best for players who are overlooked in the draft, especially if they're amenable to playing overseas. For players that need to develop, however (i.e. projects), a two-way contract with a rebuilding team is often an ideal situation. For instance, that's how one-time VU recruit and Scotty's high school teammate Kenyon Martin Jr. managed to rebuild his career and become a guy with a future in the league (although maybe not in Houston, after they drafted Jabari Smith and Tari Eason).

In Scotty's case, I think there's a very good chance that his people were working toward a deal with the Lakers off the books the entire time. The Lakers managed to buy into this year's draft with the fifth pick in the second round (#35 overall, a very valuable pick). But that's simply too high for a guy like Scotty who is very skilled already but may, or may not, be able to transfer that success to the NBA. (His size works seriously against him, but his game is much more suited to the NBA than the NCAA. If he was a lights-out shooter or defender, then he would've gone in the second round, probably somewhere near #38 where Kennedy Chandler did.) And when you consider that most teams will have to cut veteran players to get down to their maximum roster size... That was a deterrent in his case. But the Lakers need skilled players who can contribute this year. Scotty could fit in very well with them as a bench player, if he can shore up some critical weaknesses early in the season. As a result, I actually think he has a better chance of sticking in the NBA than he would if he had been picked in the draft.
I don't quite follow why you think that Pippen's game is more suited to the NBA than college when he was a legit star in College who led the SEC in scoring two seasons in a row and probably would have had more success had he actually played with a little more overall scoring talent. I'm assuming you aren't of the opinion that he will be a star, and it is difficult to find a comparison for a short guard without top end athleticism and an inconsistent outside shot (based on NBA players). Nothing that I see that benefits him in the NBA didn't also benefit his college game, which is why he was so successful despite having to shoulder such a heavy load during his final two seasons.
Perhaps I was unclear. I wasn't referring to the level of his game, but the style of it. Obviously the players are far better, so I'm not saying he'll score more in the NBA than the 20 points a game he scored in college. In fact he's extremely unlikely to ever start a game. With the greater emphasis on three-point shooting, the sparing use of zones, and the 24-second shot clock, the NBA court is a lot more open than the college court is. That's why people are so excited to see what Jaden Ivey can do, for instance, because he's so good in the open court and won't have his team's two seven-footers clogging the paint at all times (and providing conveniently located help defenders). Scottie's abilities to handle the ball in space, create for himself and others, and break down a defense by driving to the basket are proportionally more important than in the NBA. Scottie's offense has never been a concern, although he will need to become a much better shooter from outside. It's his defense that is a concern. And I'm not saying that those traits that I mentioned didn't also benefit him in college. It's just that, proportionally, they are more suited to the NBA style of play.

The same was true of Saben Lee, for instance, which is why he has had perhaps as good of an NBA career as someone like, say, John Jenkins. Jenkins was a far better player in college, but his style of play was poorly suited to where the NBA went in the last decade.
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Re: Keonte Kennedy Reportedly Going To Memphis

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TwoSaints wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:41 am
Jason94 wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:33 pm
TwoSaints wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:05 am FYI, guys. The NBA draft isn't what it used to be. There are a few reasons why, but essentially the biggest one is because the game has changed so much that scouting is less effective overall. Second, the complexities of the salary cap and the new popularity of the two-way contract has really changed the game, especially for players taken outside of the second round. Many agents now would rather have their players be free agents than to sign with a team that wants them on a two-way contract. Free agency is actually best for players who are overlooked in the draft, especially if they're amenable to playing overseas. For players that need to develop, however (i.e. projects), a two-way contract with a rebuilding team is often an ideal situation. For instance, that's how one-time VU recruit and Scotty's high school teammate Kenyon Martin Jr. managed to rebuild his career and become a guy with a future in the league (although maybe not in Houston, after they drafted Jabari Smith and Tari Eason).

In Scotty's case, I think there's a very good chance that his people were working toward a deal with the Lakers off the books the entire time. The Lakers managed to buy into this year's draft with the fifth pick in the second round (#35 overall, a very valuable pick). But that's simply too high for a guy like Scotty who is very skilled already but may, or may not, be able to transfer that success to the NBA. (His size works seriously against him, but his game is much more suited to the NBA than the NCAA. If he was a lights-out shooter or defender, then he would've gone in the second round, probably somewhere near #38 where Kennedy Chandler did.) And when you consider that most teams will have to cut veteran players to get down to their maximum roster size... That was a deterrent in his case. But the Lakers need skilled players who can contribute this year. Scotty could fit in very well with them as a bench player, if he can shore up some critical weaknesses early in the season. As a result, I actually think he has a better chance of sticking in the NBA than he would if he had been picked in the draft.
I don't quite follow why you think that Pippen's game is more suited to the NBA than college when he was a legit star in College who led the SEC in scoring two seasons in a row and probably would have had more success had he actually played with a little more overall scoring talent. I'm assuming you aren't of the opinion that he will be a star, and it is difficult to find a comparison for a short guard without top end athleticism and an inconsistent outside shot (based on NBA players). Nothing that I see that benefits him in the NBA didn't also benefit his college game, which is why he was so successful despite having to shoulder such a heavy load during his final two seasons.
Perhaps I was unclear. I wasn't referring to the level of his game, but the style of it. Obviously the players are far better, so I'm not saying he'll score more in the NBA than the 20 points a game he scored in college. In fact he's extremely unlikely to ever start a game. With the greater emphasis on three-point shooting, the sparing use of zones, and the 24-second shot clock, the NBA court is a lot more open than the college court is. That's why people are so excited to see what Jaden Ivey can do, for instance, because he's so good in the open court and won't have his team's two seven-footers clogging the paint at all times (and providing conveniently located help defenders). Scottie's abilities to handle the ball in space, create for himself and others, and break down a defense by driving to the basket are proportionally more important than in the NBA. Scottie's offense has never been a concern, although he will need to become a much better shooter from outside. It's his defense that is a concern. And I'm not saying that those traits that I mentioned didn't also benefit him in college. It's just that, proportionally, they are more suited to the NBA style of play.

The same was true of Saben Lee, for instance, which is why he has had perhaps as good of an NBA career as someone like, say, John Jenkins. Jenkins was a far better player in college, but his style of play was poorly suited to where the NBA went in the last decade.
Ok - that makes sense - I agree with that. Pippen has a fantastic basketball IQ, and really good hands which will help his defense, but he lack the explosive quickness that you need to be a top end defender and isn't particularly tall even for his position. He does have good vision and passing, which is something he didn't use quite as much because he had to score so much and didn't have anyone else as talented as he was on the floor. But his assist rate was still good despite this.

Jenkins was a great college player, but did not develop his handle enough (or perhaps didn't have the overall physical skills necessary to do so) to be a NBA guy, and was not quick enough to be a reliable defender. Lee OTOH had flaws, but his athleticism is top end. Very explosive and quick, even for NBA point guards. Seems like for a smaller player to survive they have to have a great skill as opposed to being above average at everything.
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