ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

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ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by Versus75 »

... lists DeMarre Carroll twice, unfortunately.

As the best TRANSFER IN to Missouri and the best player to TRANSFER OUT of Vanderbilt.

The Vanderbilt portion lists Derrick Byars (from Virginia) as the best TRANSFER IN. I would have suggested Billy McCaffrey. Or, for that one huge half game versus Kentucky, Ross Neltner. Any others?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... sec-school


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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by ChattaDore »

Out… John Amechi (Penn St) & Matt Maloney (Penn): both with ultimately a cup of coffee in the NBA. If I’m not mistaken they both left the same year. Don’t ask me how I remember this but Amechi scored the 100th point against UT the year Vandy won at home against a Wade/A. Houston team, 108-68
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by commadore »

I agree that Billy McCaffrey was best.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by dcdore »

McCaffrey was the best; Elder was my favorite.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by TwoSaints »

commadore wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:50 pm I agree that Billy McCaffrey was best.
I don't think there's any question about it, both in terms of team success and individual success--and I've long been on the Derrick-Byars-is-criminally-underrated bandwagon. And, frankly, I've also always thought that Billy McCaffrey got too much credit for the team's success during his junior year. (Personally I always thought Kevin Anglin and Bruce Elder--another transfer--were nearly as important.) But still... he was the SEC co-POY (with Jamal Mashburn) and All-American, and he led Vanderbilt to an SEC regular season title, a #5 ranking, and the Sweet 16. With all due respect, that tops Derrick Byars.

I have noticed throughout the series that Gasaway has a pretty severe recency bias. It's actually better in the SEC piece than in others. But even so, only one of the 28 players on the list transferred before Byars did (Lawrence Roberts, who transferred from Baylor to MSU in 2003). For instance, one good example is picking Johnny Juzang as Kentucky's "Most Significant Transfer Out". Just off the top of my head, he was clearly not as important as Kyle Wiltjer. All Wilter did was to help Kentucky win a national championship. Then he transferred to Gonzaga, where he was an All-American, a National POY candidate, and led them to an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen in his two years. So, I think this is a classic summer-school project, because I don't think Gasaway actually researched this series at all.

The article is behind a paywall, so I won't bother posting a link. But here's the three relevant paragraphs for Vanderbilt:
Missouri Tigers

Best transfer in: DeMarre Carroll, 2007-09

Carroll was the leading scorer on a Missouri team that posted a 31-7 record and reached the 2009 Elite Eight as a No. 3 seed. He began his career with 21 starts in 64 games at Vanderbilt.

Vanderbilt Commodores

Best transfer in: Derrick Byars, 2005-07

Byars averaged 17 points for a Vanderbilt team that reached the 2007 Sweet 16 as a No. 6 seed. He began his career at Virginia, where he alternated between starting and coming off the bench for two seasons under coach Pete Gillen.

Most significant transfer out: DeMarre Carroll, 2004-06

Carroll teamed with Shan Foster and Byars on a 17-13 Vanderbilt team that earned a spot in the 2006 NIT as a No. 4 seed. He then moved on to bigger things at Missouri. (See "Missouri," above.)
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by TwoSaints »

ChattaDore wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:26 pm Out… John Amechi (Penn St) & Matt Maloney (Penn): both with ultimately a cup of coffee in the NBA. If I’m not mistaken they both left the same year. Don’t ask me how I remember this but Amechi scored the 100th point against UT the year Vandy won at home against a Wade/A. Houston team, 108-68
About Amaechi and Maloney, there are some significant things that are worthing knowing about them. First, they were roommates and basically decided to transfer together, supposedly because they weren't getting playing time (I think Fogler was the coach back then). I haven't read Amaechi's book, but I have to wonder if homophobia towards Amaechi was an unstated cause of it. Second, they each had a whole lot more than a "cup of coffee" in the NBA:

Maloney played for seven years, earning All-Rookie second team honors and starting all season for a Houston team that made the Western Conference Finals. That's not bad and he ended up earning over $17 million in the association.. Amaechi didn't have as long a career, but he made an impact too. He played briefly for Cleveland as a rookie, then played in Europe for two years. But he came back and played for five years in the NBA, starting for most of two seasons in Orlando (inheriting the Jeff Turner Honorary Starting Power Forward position?). He also played for the English National Team. At one point he actually turned down a $17 million offer from the Lakers to stay in Orlando at a much lower pay rate (he still earned about $9.5 million).

But Amaechi's post-NBA career that has been very significant. He was the first NBA player ever to come out (although not while active), which obviously caused an enormous amount of attention. He's a fairly big celebrity here in the UK, partly as a basketball commentator on the BBC but more as an organisational psychologist, public speaker, activist, and charitable foundation director. He has two honorary doctorates for his charity work (from Manchester Metropolitan University and East London University) and was awarded an OBE (Officer of the Order of the British Empire) for services to sport and charity. For those who don't know about British honors, that's a very big deal. It's not quite like being knighted, but it's significantly higher than the minimum level national honor (MBE). So... John's done pretty well.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by OldDude »

Thanks for the info TwoSaints, very good stuff. Amaechi has indeed had an impressive career.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by VUaskew »

So he's not "Sir" John Amaechi with the OBE?
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by Golddore68 »

I think the “best” (or worst, from Vanderbilt’s perspective) player to transfer out was Brendan Plavich. He was an outstanding two guard as a freshman. He hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to beat a good Florida team on the road. He helped us beat Kentucky and UT that year with his 3-point shooting.

But Brendan wanted to play point guard. Stallings said no. Brendan transferred to UNC-Charlotte. We definitely missed him.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by Golddore68 »

TwoSaints wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:07 am
ChattaDore wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:26 pm Out… John Amechi (Penn St) & Matt Maloney (Penn): both with ultimately a cup of coffee in the NBA. If I’m not mistaken they both left the same year. Don’t ask me how I remember this but Amechi scored the 100th point against UT the year Vandy won at home against a Wade/A. Houston team, 108-68
About Amaechi and Maloney, there are some significant things that are worthing knowing about them. First, they were roommates and basically decided to transfer together, supposedly because they weren't getting playing time (I think Fogler was the coach back then). I haven't read Amaechi's book, but I have to wonder if homophobia towards Amaechi was an unstated cause of it. Second, they each had a whole lot more than a "cup of coffee" in the NBA:

Maloney played for seven years, earning All-Rookie second team honors and starting all season for a Houston team that made the Western Conference Finals. That's not bad and he ended up earning over $17 million in the association.. Amaechi didn't have as long a career, but he made an impact too. He played briefly for Cleveland as a rookie, then played in Europe for two years. But he came back and played for five years in the NBA, starting for most of two seasons in Orlando (inheriting the Jeff Turner Honorary Starting Power Forward position?). He also played for the English National Team. At one point he actually turned down a $17 million offer from the Lakers to stay in Orlando at a much lower pay rate (he still earned about $9.5 million).

But Amaechi's post-NBA career that has been very significant. He was the first NBA player ever to come out (although not while active), which obviously caused an enormous amount of attention. He's a fairly big celebrity here in the UK, partly as a basketball commentator on the BBC but more as an organisational psychologist, public speaker, activist, and charitable foundation director. He has two honorary doctorates for his charity work (from Manchester Metropolitan University and East London University) and was awarded an OBE (Officer of the Order of the British Empire) for services to sport and charity. For those who don't know about British honors, that's a very big deal. It's not quite like being knighted, but it's significantly higher than the minimum level national honor (MBE). So... John's done pretty well.
Maloney was one of the top players Vanderbilt had ever recruited. He was one of the top five recruits in the nation according to The Sporting News (which I read devoutly back then, back before the days of the internet). I was amazed that Vanderbilt landed him.

I was a college student then (Lipscomb) and I called into the Eddie Fogler Show and got on the air. I told him, “That is amazing you recruited one of the top five players in high school!” Fogler seemed irritated that I brought it up. He said “I don’t keep up with that, that’s just someone’s opinion.” (He wasn’t very personable.)

But Maloney’s father was a coach (an assistant at Temple, IIRC) and he was calling Fogler all the time telling him what to do to make his offense better and how to get his son more involved. Fogler didn’t do any of the things Maloney’s dad suggested. Next thing you know, Maloney is transferring.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Golddore68 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:17 pm I think the “best” (or worst, from Vanderbilt’s perspective) player to transfer out was Brendan Plavich. He was an outstanding two guard as a freshman. He hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to beat a good Florida team on the road. He helped us beat Kentucky and UT that year with his 3-point shooting.

But Brendan wanted to play point guard. Stallings said no. Brendan transferred to UNC-Charlotte. We definitely missed him.
Correct me if I’m wrong, because I may be mixing Plavich up with another player, but wasn’t there also some marijuana involved in the reason for his transfer?
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by AuricGoldfinger »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:14 am
Golddore68 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:17 pm I think the “best” (or worst, from Vanderbilt’s perspective) player to transfer out was Brendan Plavich. He was an outstanding two guard as a freshman. He hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to beat a good Florida team on the road. He helped us beat Kentucky and UT that year with his 3-point shooting.

But Brendan wanted to play point guard. Stallings said no. Brendan transferred to UNC-Charlotte. We definitely missed him.
Correct me if I’m wrong, because I may be mixing Plavich up with another player, but wasn’t there also some marijuana involved in the reason for his transfer?
I think that was Rick Jones.
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Re: ESPN: Best SEC transfers IN and OUT ...

Post by Jason94 »

Golddore68 wrote: Thu Jun 09, 2022 10:17 pm I think the “best” (or worst, from Vanderbilt’s perspective) player to transfer out was Brendan Plavich. He was an outstanding two guard as a freshman. He hit a 3-pointer at the buzzer to beat a good Florida team on the road. He helped us beat Kentucky and UT that year with his 3-point shooting.

But Brendan wanted to play point guard. Stallings said no. Brendan transferred to UNC-Charlotte. We definitely missed him.
We missed his shooting, but he wasn't an SEC-level point guard. He lacked the quickness and ball handling skills. His TO rate as a sophomore was 28% which was crazy high for a player who only used 17% of the possessions. After he transferred his coach at UNC-C used him as a shooting guard as his assist rate dropped significantly (as did his TO's) which is almost certainly what he was going to have happen to him had he stayed. With Moore coming in the following season and Lakey getting healthy Plavich would have been the 3rd option at PG had he stayed.
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