Stack's Post Game Presser

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

Moderators: kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold, NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit

alathIN
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:35 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by alathIN »

GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:45 pm
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:24 am
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:42 am it should not take 4 years to get to .500.
While the previous guy only took 3 years to get to .000 in the league.

I'll take .500 in year 4 over .000 in year three.
Then you are settling for mediocrity. I was glad the last coach was fired too, but I still think we should expect more.
Nonsense. He didn't say "I'll take .500 for the next 11 years in a row."

If the team goes .500 next year, with this year's talented class making a strong showing as freshmen and the following year's class another notch better, then the program is clearly on the right track and it would be idiotic to fire a coach when the program is clearly getting better every year.
Yes, it's possible to mess up a program by hanging on to a coach too long when the team is stagnating or regressing from year to year.
But you can also screw up a program by being too impatient for your long term goals to be achieved in the next 5 minutes and firing a coach who is doing a good job based on an expectation of being a Final Four team three years after being winless in the conference.
That's not setting a high standard. It's a temper tantrum.


Hutch37
Commander
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:45 pm
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by Hutch37 »

[quote=Foreverhopeful post_id=165429 time=1642625367 user_id=92]
I am on the Stack bandwagon. I know we are all impatient and the injuries have killed us. As I keep saying, we need more size and height in there. The players we have are giving it their all- in the case of SP Jr., maybe too much of his "all" since he tries to do too much himself and careens down the court (remember Kyle Fuller?).


never thought i would see scottie compared to kyle fuller but for whatever crazy reason he has been playing that way- Kyle was a little faster and his feet were a half speed ahead of ball control but the comparison is pretty good. To me, what i thought was our one constant- SP jr -has not been a constant-way too many turnovers both with dribbling and in getting in the air with nowhere to go. Glass half full says he is one of the leading scorers in the SEC but those of us watching the games know something is a little off...
Hutch37
Commander
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:45 pm
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by Hutch37 »

put me in the pro Stack camp. Glad to see there are others from the previous postings. I still feel like this team is much tougher than the ones over the past 4 years and they can really play some D. I know that he is a very intense dude who has a low BS meter. I don't like excuses either but i think it is very fair to say things would be different with a strong post presence. QMB has shown real improvement but we need him as a backup who can produce. The turnovers are what puzzle me- SPjr for sure has been a surprise; Stack obviously gives Thomas a lot of room but he is just not physical enough to protect the ball from a lot of the better SEC guards. Dezonie and Lawrence both show some skill but seem to be buried in the rotation in many games. Dezonie can do it all but something must be lacking due to his playing time - not sure about his handle yet either . If lawrence can get his jump shot going he can play a lot more - he is one of our better drivers to the rack.
User avatar
GoVU
Lieutenant
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by GoVU »

alathIN wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:40 pm
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:45 pm
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:24 am

While the previous guy only took 3 years to get to .000 in the league.

I'll take .500 in year 4 over .000 in year three.
Then you are settling for mediocrity. I was glad the last coach was fired too, but I still think we should expect more.
Nonsense. He didn't say "I'll take .500 for the next 11 years in a row."

If the team goes .500 next year, with this year's talented class making a strong showing as freshmen and the following year's class another notch better, then the program is clearly on the right track and it would be idiotic to fire a coach when the program is clearly getting better every year.
Yes, it's possible to mess up a program by hanging on to a coach too long when the team is stagnating or regressing from year to year.
But you can also screw up a program by being too impatient for your long term goals to be achieved in the next 5 minutes and firing a coach who is doing a good job based on an expectation of being a Final Four team three years after being winless in the conference.
That's not setting a high standard. It's a temper tantrum.
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity. At that rate, we would be in the tournament in 6 or 7 years, the sweet 16 in 8-10 years. The best city in the best conference with a good basketball tradition should expect more. Bruce Pearl took Auburn to #2 in the nation in less. Rick Pitino turned Iona around in 2 years. Look at Texas A&M this year. Oates turned Alabama into a contender in no time. The list goes on.
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by MrMemorial »

GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity.
Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
alathIN
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:35 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by alathIN »

GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity. At that rate, we would be in the tournament in 6 or 7 years, the sweet 16 in 8-10 years. The best city in the best conference with a good basketball tradition should expect more. Bruce Pearl took Auburn to #2 in the nation in less. Rick Pitino turned Iona around in 2 years. Look at Texas A&M this year. Oates turned Alabama into a contender in no time. The list goes on.
Did Bruce Pearl inherit a team that was winless in conference the year before?
I'm trying to remember the last time Alabama was winless in conference.

People with delusional expectations always cite Nashville as a reason VU sports should be national champions in everything. Seriously, most college students don't get more than two blocks off campus unless it's for a Spring break trip to Fort Lauderdale. But I suppose you can't argue with the essential boost that perennial national power college sports programs get from being located in major cosmopolitan metropoli like Tuscaloosa AL, Lawrence KS, Athens GA, Lexington KY, and Columbus OH. It's like a top ten list of the world's most interesting cities.
User avatar
underdog74
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3823
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 2:22 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by underdog74 »

The more I see how Stack's teams fight, and the more I hear about his vision, I'm all in. He is a no nonsense type of coach that his player's seem to trust. If he sticks it out at Vandy for a few more years, he will be successful.
VUaskew
Vice Admiral
Posts: 2707
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:43 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 15 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by VUaskew »

MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:22 pm
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity.
Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
NO, it's called rebuilding. If you want an example of mediocrity, check out Jeff Fisher's career.
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by MrMemorial »

alathIN wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:08 am But I suppose you can't argue with the essential boost that perennial national power college sports programs get from being located in major cosmopolitan metropoli like Tuscaloosa AL, Lawrence KS, Athens GA, Lexington KY, and Columbus OH. It's like a top ten list of the world's most interesting cities.
A little off the subject, but Columbus is pretty much Nashville without the hillbilly music industry.

Same size, capitol of the state, middle of the state, river through downtown, hockey helped revitalize downtown, "short north" = the gulch, university on the edge of downtown, New Albany = Brentwood, etc.
User avatar
GoVU
Lieutenant
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by GoVU »

MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:22 pm
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity.
Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
1. Not my Bryce Drew. I was glad we fired him. Never my first choice.
2. Avery Johnson was 75-62 in his 4 years and played 40 cupcakes, Oates won the sec in year 2
3. A&M went from 10th place in the SEC to 15-2 overall two years later (today). They should have beat KY Wednesday

Willing to wait 4 years to GET to .500 is not going to bring the magic back. I hope he succeeds, but his seat deserves to be getting hotter after two losses in his last two winnable games.
User avatar
buffy
Vice Admiral
Posts: 3359
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:49 pm
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by buffy »

alathIN wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 6:40 pm That's not setting a high standard. It's a temper tantrum.
That's a good quote.
User avatar
charlestonalum
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 13165
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:37 am
Location: Charleston, SC
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 81 times
Contact:

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by charlestonalum »

VUaskew wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:50 am
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:22 pm
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity.
Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
NO, it's called rebuilding. If you want an example of mediocrity, check out...

Kevin Stallings until he went to Pitt
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by MrMemorial »

Actually A&M has 3 losses and let's look at who some of the wins were against.

North Florida. Corpus Christi. Houston Baptist. NWLA St. Central Arkansas.
User avatar
Doreknox
Admiral
Posts: 6969
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:17 pm
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by Doreknox »

MrMemorial wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:30 pm Actually A&M has 3 losses and let's look at who some of the wins were against.

North Florida. Corpus Christi. Houston Baptist. NWLA St. Central Arkansas.
So what? Everyone plays cupcakes. This year, we've beaten such legendary powerhouses as AL State, TX State, MS Valley State, Hawaii and Austin Peay. Five of our ten wins were from cupcakes.
User avatar
GoVU
Lieutenant
Posts: 209
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by GoVU »

MrMemorial wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:30 pm Actually A&M has 3 losses and let's look at who some of the wins were against.

North Florida. Corpus Christi. Houston Baptist. NWLA St. Central Arkansas.
They beat Arkansas, At Missouri, Norte Dame, Oregon St, Butler, and Georgia. Not bad for a depleted roster two years ago. They are 4-1 in the conference.
User avatar
charlestonalum
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 13165
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:37 am
Location: Charleston, SC
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 81 times
Contact:

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by charlestonalum »

VUaskew wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:50 am
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:22 pm
GoVU wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:49 pm
Getting to .500 after 4 years is the definition of mediocrity.
Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
NO, it's called rebuilding. If you want an example of mediocrity, check out...

Kevin Stallings until he went to Pitt
alathIN
Rear Admiral
Posts: 1911
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:35 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by alathIN »

charlestonalum wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:25 pm
VUaskew wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:50 am
MrMemorial wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:22 pm

Here's what you are intentionally missing. Getting to .500 after your bryce drew guy took the program all the way down to .000 is different than what Nate Oates and those guys were up against. By a bunch.

Alabama was coming off 5 overall winning seasons in a row when he was hired and 19 of the last 20. They had some mediocre SEC seasons but nothing as horrific and disastrous as what your bryce drew inflicted on VU.

By the way, A&M was 2-8 last season, the second year for Buzz. Not exactly John Wooden/Coach K numbers.
NO, it's called rebuilding. If you want an example of mediocrity, check out...

Kevin Stallings until he went to Pitt
Stallings is relevant to this discussion because we were all tired of him, we were tired of being a mid-pack bubble team, and we replaced him with Coach O-fer. Then we replaced O-fer with the guy half this board is itching to fire as soon as possible. And being a mid-pack bubble team seems like an aspirational goal.
Most coaching hires fail. When you replace a coach you are rolling the dice again, and the odds are that you'll wind up worse than you are.
Cherry picking the small percentage of successful hires is fun, but it doesn't represent the most likely outcome of a coaching change.

None of this is to say we shouldn't have shown Stallings the door. It was pretty clear that his best years were behind him and the program was on a downward trajectory.
But it goes to show that making a coaching change when your program is on an upward trajectory - albeit not as steep upward as you'd like - is a very low percentage gamble and you're more likely to get worse than better.
User avatar
dcdore
Admiral
Posts: 5255
Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:17 pm
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by dcdore »

"Most coaching hires fail. When you replace a coach you are rolling the dice again, and the odds are that you'll wind up worse than you are."

This!!
I moved to Alabama toward the beginning of the "Mike" years; Dubose, Shula, Price. Then almost RichRod. If Alabama football had this much trouble getting it right, what do you think VU's chances, in almost any sport, are?
Always hopeful; rarely optimistic. @GAD
MrMemorial
Rear Admiral
Posts: 2016
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:37 pm
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Stack's Post Game Presser

Post by MrMemorial »

Why is it we beat UGa by 7 and that is not a "quality win" but A&M beat them by 2 and it is?

Sounds like the "logic" of a certain "rival" forum. The one who loved coach .000 so much.

(but congrats to A&M on pulling that one out on a buzzer-beat three)
Locked Previous topicNext topic