Depth

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Jason94
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Depth

Post by Jason94 »

With Peyton Daniels transferring, we all of a sudden have a little bit of a depth issue. While 11 players saw PT tonight, only 8 players saw double digit minutes, and only one bench player scored. Until Robbins and Chatman are able to play, it appears that we will sink or swim based largely upon the performance of our starters.

The good news is that multiple players in the starting lineup are stepping up to provide backup to Scottie Pippen Jr's production. Wright is the most obvious, and it will be interesting to see how he performs against high major programs, but he has transformed his body to add athleticism to the skill he already possessed, and is a legit SEC starter. Lawrence has clearly overtaken Thomas on the depth chart, and will continue to get good amounts of PT even when Chatman returns. The large size discrepancy between the two players is probably the main differentiator and Lawrence should continue to play even if Thomas does find his shot. The difference in the ability to defend, rebound and present an offensive threat inside the arc is too great in this case. Mann is a really nice hustle/glue guy/6th man. He is a bit of a tweener, but he has a nose for the ball, and is so active he draws fouls through motion as opposed to his being a large offensive threat. In a lot of ways he is the opposite player that Stute is. Mann is a short post player while Stute is a tall wing/three point specialist.

I think the starting lineup is fine where it is at the moment, but if Robbins and Chatman are able to return and play the way they are expected to, I would set the rotation as such:

Pippen
Chatman
Wright
Stute
Robbins
and have Mann, QMB and Lawrence as the main three off the bench. That is a very solid 8 man rotation. There is an argument that Lawrence should start of Chatman given the way he has played, but since Lawrence is 6'-4", you could also argue that he play the 2nd wing spot and move Wright to the PF spot. The only problem is that there would be no point guard coming off the bench, though any of Pippen, Lawrence and Chatman are capable of doing so. One can also suggest that Mann might be a better starter at the 4, even if he is undersized, and I would not have an issue with that.

At this moment, if we don't get Robbins or Chatman back it will be a bit of a long season, where we are improved incrementally, but not a .500 SEC team. If they are able to come back healthy, we have a team where our 7th and 8th best players are probably two of Mann, Stute and QMB, which is more than reasonable for a mid-range SEC team to have.

Most importantly, having productive seasons from Wright, Lawrence Stute and Mann provides a base which allow the incoming freshmen class to contribute as they are ready as opposed to being completely relied upon. Most important will be to have Wright return for his senior season, which I hope is the case.


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Re: Depth

Post by UltimateVUFan »

At the rate Pippen has started the season, does HE return for a senior year? I know he has been double-teamed and dogged like crazy, and rightfully so. You can’t argue that he isn’t contributing significantly to the team. But if his production stays where it is, he is not going to win SEC PotY.
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Re: Depth

Post by VandyBias »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:58 pm At the rate Pippen has started the season, does HE return for a senior year? I know he has been double-teamed and dogged like crazy, and rightfully so. You can’t argue that he isn’t contributing significantly to the team. But if his production stays where it is, he is not going to win SEC PotY.
You said exactly what’s been on my mind recently, if Pip keeps having 13 point no show games and isn’t in contention for SEC PotY or any major awards I don’t see the drawbacks in him returning next year to an even better team next year and etching his name in the Vanderbilt record books. Him mentoring a guy like Noah Shelby would be huge for us, not to mention how good a team we would have with the 2022 recruiting class + Pip.
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Re: Depth

Post by LawoftheWest »

Jason,
Thank you again for your analysis.
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underdog74
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Re: Depth

Post by underdog74 »

I don't know if what was insider info or just his assumption, but the PxP guy on Saturday's broadcast said multiple times that Robbins should/will be back for conference play.
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Re: Depth

Post by VandyBias »

underdog74 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:23 am I don't know if what was insider info or just his assumption, but the PxP guy on Saturday's broadcast said multiple times that Robbins should/will be back for conference play.
That would be great, although I'd love to have him back for the Hawaii game against a top 15 opponent in BYU.
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Re: Depth

Post by Dorewithaflare »

You are not keeping this Lawrence kid out of this line-up. He is showing ever game that he is one of our most talented players.
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Re: Depth

Post by Hutch37 »

don't rule out Dezonie- he has a similar build to Wright - i think he is a perfect person to grow from CJS coaching - as long as he can deal with limited minutes as a freshman
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Re: Depth

Post by Dsdore »

I really like what I see long term in Lawrence, Dezonie and Dorsey. With enough playing time to develop these guys look to be legit SEC level players. Combined with next year’s class (barring transfers) it could be good run coming up.
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Re: Depth

Post by Ndorefin »

Just remember, Lawrence is coming off a terrible knee injury from last year and only played a few games. There is good reason why he started last year and again this year. I believe this game has shown why Stack likes his game and am hopeful Lawrence has regained his confidence and will continue to improve as he gets more games under his belt….great to see it!!!
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Re: Depth

Post by Jason94 »

Dorewithaflare wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:07 am You are not keeping this Lawrence kid out of this line-up. He is showing ever game that he is one of our most talented players.
I agree he isn't out of the lineup - the question is whether he starts or not once Chatman returns. Unless there is some other player who steps up, I could see a three guard rotation, with Pippen, Chatman and Lawrence splitting 80 minutes at the 1 and 2. It is even possible to see all three of them in the lineup at once given that Lawrence is 6'-4" and could conceivably play the other wing position.
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Re: Depth

Post by Jason94 »

Dsdore wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:44 am I really like what I see long term in Lawrence, Dezonie and Dorsey. With enough playing time to develop these guys look to be legit SEC level players. Combined with next year’s class (barring transfers) it could be good run coming up.
I agree, but right now Lawrence is well ahead of the other two. Dezonie has so far played like a freshman - lots of TO's, hasn't had his shot fall and has fouled often. Dorsey has struggled to find his groove as well. So far he is a low volume three point specialist who hasn't hit a three yet. Of the three, it is likely that only Lawrence will end up with significant minutes under his belt going into next year.
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Re: Depth

Post by TwoSaints »

Jason94 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:20 pm
Dsdore wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:44 am I really like what I see long term in Lawrence, Dezonie and Dorsey. With enough playing time to develop these guys look to be legit SEC level players. Combined with next year’s class (barring transfers) it could be good run coming up.
I agree, but right now Lawrence is well ahead of the other two. Dezonie has so far played like a freshman - lots of TO's, hasn't had his shot fall and has fouled often. Dorsey has struggled to find his groove as well. So far he is a low volume three point specialist who hasn't hit a three yet. Of the three, it is likely that only Lawrence will end up with significant minutes under his belt going into next year.
Exactly. And of course, at this point we don’t really know how the freshmen will play by February. CJS and staff are proving to be as good as advertised at development and nothing teaches like experience. But it’s also impossible to predict how fast the game will slow down for them or how they’ll respond. I’m still hopeful that Terren Frank can be a positive contributor too. But until Chatman and Robbins are healthy again, losing Daniels is a blow to our depth—although it did at least come from a position of depth.
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Re: Depth

Post by Dorewithaflare »

Forget Robbins its not going to happen. He is going to sat over there all year with his big foot in a boot and get a degree from Vanderbilt.
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Re: Depth

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Dorewithaflare wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 am Forget Robbins its not going to happen. He is going to sat over there all year with his big foot in a boot and get a degree from Vanderbilt.
I admit to being pessimistic about his return as well… but source???
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Re: Depth

Post by alathIN »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:21 am
Dorewithaflare wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:27 am Forget Robbins its not going to happen. He is going to sat over there all year with his big foot in a boot and get a degree from Vanderbilt.
I admit to being pessimistic about his return as well… but source???
I have no source at all but the history of 7 footers with foot and ankle injuries is not great.

If he's going to just limp around and play spot minutes between re-injuries, I would almost rather he sit out and come back healthy for next year. Assuming he'd want another year of college hoops.
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Re: Depth

Post by alathIN »

Great to see Trey Thomas find his shot last night.

Regarding depth, Thomas' game prompted more depth thoughts.
There are still some holes in the roster - like size and strength in the paint - and still heavy on 6'4"-6'6" ish wing-ish players.
But unlike last year, there are a lot more guys in that stable who can contribute and they all bring slightly different skill sets. It should give Stack some options to play whoever from that group who has the hot hand, or who is a little more of a banger or whoever is a little better perimeter defender, etc, depending on what is needed at the moment.
Unless Robbins and Chatham come back reliably healthy, I don't see this team being quantum leaps better than last year. But being marginally better could matter in close games and I think we will continue to see progress throughout the year.
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