Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

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Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by TwoSaints »

I’ve been busy for a bit, so I was surprised that nobody had yet commented on the reports out of Austin that Texas and OU are on the verge of joining the SEC. What does everyone think?

I suppose it would be good for us, specifically, at least in the short run. It will make the likelihood of a championship that much more remote of course. But I like the higher level of competition it would add and I think it would certainly be good for the visibility of the university. Its repercussions outside the SEC would of course be massive. And it would certainly lead to yet another round of realignment at the very least and, in combination with the elimination of old-fashioned “amateurism”, might even lead to the end of intercollegiate athletics.


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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by UltimateVUFan »

It’s all over the football forum. Personally I feel that NLI is enough of a shakeup without massive conference realignment thrown into the mix. I hope it doesn’t happen. But the reports I’ve seen seem to imply that UT and OU may end up in another conference if not the SEC. The whole thing is a mess. It’s a shame that college sports is now completely about money. I know it has been trending that way for decades, but as you stated, this could be the death knell for intercollegiate athletics in some regards. Seems like we’ll basically see “pro” sports teams affiliated with many “universities” (at least the blue blood power houses) without so much as a wink or a nod to student athletics.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by mathguy »

I don't think this really changes anything for us.

Both OU and UT are good programs. But at the end of the day:

UT has been ranked in the final AP poll exactly 1 time in the last 10 seasons. In that time they have missed the NCAAs 4 times and never advanced to the sweet 16.

In the same time, OU has been ranked in the final AP poll 3 times, missed 3 NCAAs, and admittedly made 2 sweet 16s (one of which ended up a final 4).

So, these are good programs, but not powerhouse programs. They are not coming in and suddenly challenging Kentucky for SEC dominance. When we have good teams, we can beat Oklahoma and Texas. When we have so-so teams, they are a tough team that we can pull an upset against, but are underdogs. When we have bad teams, we'll lose to them.

But at the end of the day, they are not changing the calculus for us. If we're good we can beat them. If we're not, it doesn't matter.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by LawoftheWest »

mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:02 pm I don't think this really changes anything for us.

Both OU and UT are good programs. But at the end of the day:

UT has been ranked in the final AP poll exactly 1 time in the last 10 seasons. In that time they have missed the NCAAs 4 times and never advanced to the sweet 16.

But at the end of the day, they are not changing the calculus for us. If we're good we can beat them. If we're not, it doesn't matter.

As the stock brokerage firms say, "past performance is no guarantee of future results". Shaka Smart is gone.

Chris Beard is now the TX basketball coach. He has already brought in four transfers including Disu from Vandy, one of our two best players. He is recruiting well. TX hired him to win a national championship. They will become a dominant team in the SEC within a year or two, I believe, competing with the Blue Mist.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by oakparkDore »

Beard is a fantastic coach. Porter Moser at OU is also a fantastic coach. Leaving aside all issues of football, tradition, the health of college sports, etc., this is an add for SEC basketball.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by mathguy »

LawoftheWest wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:21 pm
mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:02 pm I don't think this really changes anything for us.

Both OU and UT are good programs. But at the end of the day:

UT has been ranked in the final AP poll exactly 1 time in the last 10 seasons. In that time they have missed the NCAAs 4 times and never advanced to the sweet 16.

But at the end of the day, they are not changing the calculus for us. If we're good we can beat them. If we're not, it doesn't matter.

As the stock brokerage firms say, "past performance is no guarantee of future results". Shaka Smart is gone.

Chris Beard is now the TX basketball coach. He has already brought in four transfers including Disu from Vandy, one of our two best players. He is recruiting well. TX hired him to win a national championship. They will become a dominant team in the SEC within a year or two, I believe, competing with the Blue Mist.
True, but Bryce Drew also recruited two McDonald's All-Americans to Vandy and ... did not win a national championship with them (to put it kindly).

Hey, maybe Beard is a great coach. Maybe they are about to go on a great run (and if they do, good for them). But who knows? Historically, Texas has never been a powerhouse ... easy to predict that they might be really good next year ... hard to look at their past and say they're suddenly going to be really good practically every year for a decade (or 6 if we want to compare them to UK).

They aren't a program striking fear in me. I maintain: Even with TX and Oklahoma in the SEC, if we manage to have another team like the Byars/Foster team we'll be near the top of the SEC and go to the sweet 16. If we have another team like the Taylor/Tinsley/Jenkins team, we'll have another chance to win the SECT.

On the other hand, if we put out the kind of teams we've had the last three or four years ... we won't.

So I don't care about Texas and Oklahoma. We just need to do our own thing and if we do it well, we'll be fine.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by OldDude »

LawoftheWest wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:21 pm
mathguy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:02 pm I don't think this really changes anything for us.

Both OU and UT are good programs. But at the end of the day:

UT has been ranked in the final AP poll exactly 1 time in the last 10 seasons. In that time they have missed the NCAAs 4 times and never advanced to the sweet 16.

But at the end of the day, they are not changing the calculus for us. If we're good we can beat them. If we're not, it doesn't matter.

As the stock brokerage firms say, "past performance is no guarantee of future results". Shaka Smart is gone.

Chris Beard is now the TX basketball coach. He has already brought in four transfers including Disu from Vandy, one of our two best players. He is recruiting well. TX hired him to win a national championship. They will become a dominant team in the SEC within a year or two, I believe, competing with the Blue Mist.
Or getting a jump on NIL/ writing bigger checks.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Gambit »

From a purely sports perspective, it obviously strengthens the SEC in pretty much all revenue sports. That said, sports at a university are supposed to a tangential extracurricular, not its central mission. I feel like Vanderbilt was an outlier back when the SEC was 10, before Ark and SC joined. Then you add those 2, then AtM and Mizzou, now maybe TX and OK, and we are 1 relatively small private in a sea of gigantic state schools.

If I was benevolent dictator of college sports, I would realign Vandy into a “Magnolia League” of more southern academically focused schools. A mix of public and private like Tulane, Duke, UVA, W&M, Richmond, Wake, GaTech, Rice, maybe Navy. VaTech could replace Vandy in the SEC.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Doreknox »

Gambit wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:59 am If I was benevolent dictator of college sports, I would realign Vandy into a “Magnolia League” of more southern academically focused schools. A mix of public and private like Tulane, Duke, UVA, W&M, Richmond, Wake, GaTech, Rice, maybe Navy. VaTech could replace Vandy in the SEC.
That league would probably get TV contract payouts like the AAC's, which is $7 million per school.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Gambit »

I admit my realignment is totally divorced from reality. It was intended to be. I’m fully aware this will never, ever happen. While we’re at it, I’d greatly diminish the role of money in college sports if I could. That is what has perverted the missions of universities. But realistically I don’t see Vanderbilt winning more than 1 or 2 SEC football games per season except on rare occasions. There is no reason we can’t continue our historical basketball level of success, such as it is.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by mathguy »

Gambit wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:26 pm I admit my realignment is totally divorced from reality. It was intended to be. I’m fully aware this will never, ever happen. While we’re at it, I’d greatly diminish the role of money in college sports if I could. That is what has perverted the missions of universities. But realistically I don’t see Vanderbilt winning more than 1 or 2 SEC football games per season except on rare occasions. There is no reason we can’t continue our historical basketball level of success, such as it is.
Yup. Yup. Yup.

I just read an article about a HS Quarterback who has signed with Ohio St. who is planning on skipping his senior HS football season so that he can cash in on NIL money now. I threw up in my mouth a little.

Many football/basketball coaches at state universities are the highest paid state employee in their state.

And all this for money that ... by and large goes back to the athletics department instead of to the university fund.

I understand there are some correlations - that Vandy's admissions jump in years after we've made the sweet 16, and Duke has in many ways built their academic reputation on the back of the application trove that becoming a household name in the Coach K era has brought them. But nevertheless, the big SEC football payout doesn't go towards our scholarship fund for needy students or our ability to pay faculty. It largely goes back into paying for athletics. It's a circular game. It's depressing and NIL is going to make it worse.

I was a college sports fan when I was younger and the game was more innocent I was less aware of how things worked. I'm still a college sports fan because I went to a DI school and want to see my team do well. In the abstract? I now believe that Europe has it right with the concept of club teams. I'm not sure that I really believe colleges should have sports teams at all any more. I'm not completely convinced High Schools should either (though I waffle a bit more on that one).
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Vandamnit »

Silver lining...full 16 team SEC tourney. No byes. Everyone plays equally rested/tired.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by dcdore »

mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:27 am I now believe that Europe has it right with the concept of club teams. I'm not sure that I really believe colleges should have sports teams at all any more.
Absolutely! France doesn't have high school soccer (futbol) teams either.
Always hopeful; rarely optimistic. @GAD
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by commadore »

dcdore wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:22 am
mathguy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:27 am I now believe that Europe has it right with the concept of club teams. I'm not sure that I really believe colleges should have sports teams at all any more.
Absolutely! France doesn't have high school soccer (futbol) teams either.
Nor do they have a military! :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Gambit »

Ummm, they do. I believe it’s the largest in the EU. But what on earth does that have to do with scholastic sports.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by commadore »

Gambit wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:09 am Ummm, they do. I believe it’s the largest in the EU. But what on earth does that have to do with scholastic sports.
You must be French. IT WAS A JOKE. Tell me you have never heard the jokes about the french military. All their vehicles have one forward gear and 6 reverse gears? Good grief. Too woke to be a good bloke.
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by Gambit »

Ah ok. No I’ve heard jokes about military inferiority. I think they’re funny. I just didn’t get the seque from school sports.

The French have 4 defense threat levels: run, hide, collaborate, surrender

How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris from invading armies? No one knows; no Frenchmen have ever tried.

The biggest French industrial complex is manufacturing white flags.
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Re: No Byes

Post by Versus75 »

Vandamnit wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:01 am Silver lining...full 16 team SEC tourney. No byes. Everyone plays equally rested/tired.
That's not gonna happen. There will not be 8 games (requiring 2 venues) on the same day. And anyway, Calipari, Wade, whoever is the Florida coach will demand a couple days off.

Likely scenario:

Day 1: Teams 9-16 play to cut field to 12 teams
Day 2: Teams 5-12 (or the teams that upset 9-12) play to cut field to 8 teams
Day 3: Quarterfinals
Day 4: Semifinals
Day 5: Championship
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Re: No Byes

Post by mathguy »

Versus75 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:37 am
Vandamnit wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:01 am Silver lining...full 16 team SEC tourney. No byes. Everyone plays equally rested/tired.
That's not gonna happen. There will not be 8 games (requiring 2 venues) on the same day. And anyway, Calipari, Wade, whoever is the Florida coach will demand a couple days off.

Likely scenario:

Day 1: Teams 9-16 play to cut field to 12 teams
Day 2: Teams 5-12 (or the teams that upset 9-12) play to cut field to 8 teams
Day 3: Quarterfinals
Day 4: Semifinals
Day 5: Championship
Don't need two sites.

Day 1: 1vs16, 2vs15, 3vs14, 4vs13
Day 2: 5vs12, 6vs11, 7vs10, 8vs9
Days 3-5 like your schedule

Not perfect, but more equal. And the top 4 seeds are still "protected" with a day off (assuming they win their first round game).
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Re: Thoughts on Texas and Oklahoma?

Post by dallasdore »

True, but Bryce Drew also recruited two McDonald's All-Americans to Vandy and ... did not win a national championship with them (to put it kindly).

Hey, maybe Beard is a great coach. Maybe they are about to go on a great run (and if they do, good for them). But who knows? Historically, Texas has never been a powerhouse ... easy to predict that they might be really good next year ... hard to look at their past and say they're suddenly going to be really good practically every year for a decade (or 6 if we want to compare them to UK).


Please don't be comparing Bryce Drew to Chris Beard. Beard may or may not succeed, but that is unfair to him.

Comparing Bryce Drew to a canned ham would be a good debate, however...
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