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my mini-manifesto - or rant

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

Moderators: NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit, kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold

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roanoke
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Re: my mini-manifesto - or rant

Post by roanoke » Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:50 am

I know nothing about Pippen's intentions - but, I also expect him to be back. That is why Disu's leaving kind of hurt all the more.

It is kind of ironic - the last few years we have lost guys to the draft because they had prototypical NBA potential and frames. Pippen, by contrast, has done more than most of those guys did for us - but is not the perfect NBA model. Pippen excels in playing smart, and knowing what he can do and doing it. Pippen is a great college basketball player - but he has a little way to go to be a draft threat first rounder. I think he will be one before he graduates. He needs to get a bit stronger and get the announcers to stop saying the other team should force him left - and work on the d a little too. He does a LOT of things well. At the end of the season he also took on being a vocal team leader - and was good at it. I have not seen him climbing up NBA mock drafts - I think next year he will.

I also think winning will only help him - and I think we have a shot at being pretty good next year if the newcomers are half as good as advertised. Unfortunately, we know that is not always a given. I think Stack is going to have the type of numbers of competent players to play a swarming, gritty d - and press a bit more. We were very good at up-tempo d. Pippen, Thomas, Lawrence, Chatman is a good start at backcourt - Chatman started for the #3 team in 2020... I am excited to have him. Robbins is a real center and that will help too. Milora-Brown may get to play some four - or back Robbins up. Wright and Stute are good players and I like to watch them both play - I am hopeful Terren Frank (who went to school with Pippen) will also be a plus.

And the new freshmen - Dorsey and Daniels - are highly regarded. We should be pretty good. With Disu, we would have been very good... But you line up with who you have - and we did play a long stretch last year without Disu - and we did ok.Again, ironically, this gave Wright and Stute more time on the court - which will end up helping next year.
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Jason94
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Re: my mini-manifesto - or rant

Post by Jason94 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:23 am

roanoke wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 8:50 am
I know nothing about Pippen's intentions - but, I also expect him to be back. That is why Disu's leaving kind of hurt all the more.

It is kind of ironic - the last few years we have lost guys to the draft because they had prototypical NBA potential and frames. Pippen, by contrast, has done more than most of those guys did for us - but is not the perfect NBA model. Pippen excels in playing smart, and knowing what he can do and doing it. Pippen is a great college basketball player - but he has a little way to go to be a draft threat first rounder. I think he will be one before he graduates. He needs to get a bit stronger and get the announcers to stop saying the other team should force him left - and work on the d a little too. He does a LOT of things well. At the end of the season he also took on being a vocal team leader - and was good at it. I have not seen him climbing up NBA mock drafts - I think next year he will.

I also think winning will only help him - and I think we have a shot at being pretty good next year if the newcomers are half as good as advertised. Unfortunately, we know that is not always a given. I think Stack is going to have the type of numbers of competent players to play a swarming, gritty d - and press a bit more. We were very good at up-tempo d. Pippen, Thomas, Lawrence, Chatman is a good start at backcourt - Chatman started for the #3 team in 2020... I am excited to have him. Robbins is a real center and that will help too. Milora-Brown may get to play some four - or back Robbins up. Wright and Stute are good players and I like to watch them both play - I am hopeful Terren Frank (who went to school with Pippen) will also be a plus.

And the new freshmen - Dorsey and Daniels - are highly regarded. We should be pretty good. With Disu, we would have been very good... But you line up with who you have - and we did play a long stretch last year without Disu - and we did ok.Again, ironically, this gave Wright and Stute more time on the court - which will end up helping next year.
We did ok with Disu, but it was pretty clear we were a much better team with him. In the seven games before his injury (and after he missed the Ark game) he averaged 17.4 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 1.6 bpg and went 30-40 from the line. That is approaching 1st team ALL-SEC territory, and it would not be crazy to think he could have been a contender for SEC POTY had he improved as a junior. In other words, the dropoff from him to whoever else we get to play at the 4 is going to be tremendous in all likelihood, and the addition of Robbins only somewhat makes up for that loss. Chatman may have been a starter for the #3 team in the nation, but did so as the 5th option who got 26 mpg - his numbers suggest he is a solid replacement for Evans, but hoping for an upgrade over Evans would be asking him to do more than he has shown in previous seasons.

I suppose this all rests on what one's definitely of "pretty good" is. With Pippen back I think it would be reasonable to think we could win 7 SEC games and finish with a .500 record, which is something we haven't seen in 5 seasons, but historically should only be seen as a building block and a sign of improvement. "Pretty good" historically for Vanderbilt would be the 2015 season or the 2005 or 2009 seasons - I think it will require a whole lot of "ifs" to go the right way for us to be at that level.
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dore74
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Re: my mini-manifesto - or rant

Post by dore74 » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:38 pm

I'm totally self contradictory on this...

On the one hand student athletes have the right to matriculate where ever they so desire and should have no restrictions on them--the coaches sure as heck don't. On the other hand perpetual transfers and "graduate students" create an atmosphere akin to schools hiring mercenaries who come and go rather rather than having teams composed of Vanderbilt students.

Power 5 D-1 basketball, much more than when i was on campus in the early '70's, is a stepping stone to professional ball, be it the NBA or leagues abroad or in coaching etc. So its becoming a "major" of sorts in its own. Is Vanderbilt equipped to compete with schools that offer Phys Ed or other such majors? On the other hand academics have become more important to others...so maybe we have a chance here.

Creates all sorts of challenges for the staff--especially one that does not have long college coaching experience.
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