It would appear...

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commadore
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It would appear...

Post by commadore »

!
Last edited by commadore on Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: It would appear...

Post by vutrain »

commadore wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:26 pm We hired the wrong Drew.
Well, ya beat me to this posting.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by Doresince89 »

Scott Drew had a 1 win conference season in year 2. He won 11 conference games in his first 4 years and finished no better than 11th. Malcom Turner and the mob would have fired him.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by CrimeDore »

The situation Scott inherited was quite different than the situation that Bryce inherited.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm Scott Drew had a 1 win conference season in year 2. Malcom Turner and the mob would have fired him.
Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by Doresince89 »

Both were rebuilds. I get Baylor was a bigger mess but they stuck with the plan even when it was stagnant at the start. We will not know what would have happened. Rafferty referenced Scott saying it wasn’t about coaching as much as it’s about great players. We were getting great players when the plug was pulled.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by Doresince89 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:48 pm
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm Scott Drew had a 1 win conference season in year 2. Malcom Turner and the mob would have fired him.
Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by LawoftheWest »

When Scott Drew became head coach at Baylor they were in the worst shape imaginable. Prior to his hiring, one player murdered another and the coach, Dave Bliss, tried to cover it up. He told his players to lie and say that the murdered player was a drug dealer. His conversation was recorded by an assistant coach. The NCAA found drug use by players and under the table payments.

Sanctions were big time. His first year Scott could not schedule any out of conference teams - he could only play in conference. He was using walk-ons. It goes on and on. The only worse situation was SMU's death penalty in football.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by vufan1 »

vutrain wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:32 pm
commadore wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:26 pm We hired the wrong Drew.
Well, ya beat me to this posting.
Me as well...
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Re: It would appear...

Post by Go Vandy! »

LawoftheWest wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:09 pm...The only worse situation was SMU's death penalty in football.
Sure am glad we caught them at the perfect time. Waitaminute-
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Re: It would appear...

Post by commadore »

Didn't realize all the Drew cousins would be rushing to his defense. I guess when they finally fire White all her "family" members will be hollering how unfair it was to her too.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by oakparkDore »

Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:48 pm
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm Scott Drew had a 1 win conference season in year 2. Malcom Turner and the mob would have fired him.
Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
I liked Bryce Drew a lot. Nice guy. Great representative of VU. When he recruited that unprecedented class, I remember doing my Thanksgiving “thanks” at the table for Bryce Drew (to some quizzical looks for my shallowness, LOL). I defended him on here. A lot. But ultimately, 0-18 is 0-18, regardless of injuries. You can’t defend that. You just can’t. A lot of worse teams talent wise (think of how bad some old Auburn and Ole Miss teams were) have managed to win 2-4 games in the conference. For whatever reason, he couldn’t make adjustments to fix that situation and came off looking more like a cheerleader than a leader. Shittu got worse throughout the year. Had we kept Bryce, we would have been tacitly saying that a winless SEC season is acceptable. You can’t have that message. I didn’t like him either, but Malcolm Turner is far from the only AD who would have made that decision. So unfortunately he needed to go. And you need to let it go too man.
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Re: It would appear...

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Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:48 pm
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:39 pm Scott Drew had a 1 win conference season in year 2. Malcom Turner and the mob would have fired him.
Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
He absolutely inherited a NCAA Tournament team. He had a NBA center, plus three juniors who would go on to be 1000 point scorers. That is more than enough to make the tournament, which is evidenced by the fact that the team made the tournament despite digging itself into a 8-10 hole in mid-January by playing the same style that they had played the previous season. Anyone watching that season did not marvel that it was some sort of miracle that we made the tournament.
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Re: It would appear...

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oakparkDore wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 am
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:48 pm

Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
I liked Bryce Drew a lot. Nice guy. Great representative of VU. When he recruited that unprecedented class, I remember doing my Thanksgiving “thanks” at the table for Bryce Drew (to some quizzical looks for my shallowness, LOL). I defended him on here. A lot. But ultimately, 0-18 is 0-18, regardless of injuries. You can’t defend that. You just can’t. A lot of worse teams talent wise (think of how bad some old Auburn and Ole Miss teams were) have managed to win 2-4 games in the conference. For whatever reason, he couldn’t make adjustments to fix that situation and came off looking more like a cheerleader than a leader. Shittu got worse throughout the year. Had we kept Bryce, we would have been tacitly saying that a winless SEC season is acceptable. You can’t have that message. I didn’t like him either, but Malcolm Turner is far from the only AD who would have made that decision. So unfortunately he needed to go. And you need to let it go too man.
This

If another coach walks in to our next HC job search with Drew's resume, I'd hire him on the spot.

But after 0-18, firing Bryce Drew was the easiest decision in the history of sports. No looking back.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by katmai »

commadore wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:26 pm We hired the wrong Drew.
We also hired the wrong Brown for football.

I was excited by the Drew hire, and really wished it had worked out. But he really did seem clueless on the bench, and the results his last year confirmed that.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by dallasdore »

commadore wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:24 am Didn't realize all the Drew cousins would be rushing to his defense. I guess when they finally fire White all her "family" members will be hollering how unfair it was to her too.
LOL. The timing of this post is priceless!

I don't think White has much family.
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Re: It would appear...

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oakparkDore wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 am
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:48 pm

Scott didn’t inherit an NCAAT team and proceed to tank it. In fact, when he arrived in 2003, Baylor hadn’t been to the Dance since 1988. Apples and oranges comparison, considering that despite a relative decline in Stallings’ later seasons, VU was still a reasonably respectable program. Baylor...not so much.
Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
I liked Bryce Drew a lot. Nice guy. Great representative of VU. When he recruited that unprecedented class, I remember doing my Thanksgiving “thanks” at the table for Bryce Drew (to some quizzical looks for my shallowness, LOL). I defended him on here. A lot. But ultimately, 0-18 is 0-18, regardless of injuries. You can’t defend that. You just can’t. A lot of worse teams talent wise (think of how bad some old Auburn and Ole Miss teams were) have managed to win 2-4 games in the conference. For whatever reason, he couldn’t make adjustments to fix that situation and came off looking more like a cheerleader than a leader. Shittu got worse throughout the year. Had we kept Bryce, we would have been tacitly saying that a winless SEC season is acceptable. You can’t have that message. I didn’t like him either, but Malcolm Turner is far from the only AD who would have made that decision. So unfortunately he needed to go. And you need to let it go too man.
The program isn't in significantly better shape today than it was when Drew was fired after the winless SEC season. Next year is almost entirely dependent on Pippen and Disu whatever they decide and their state of health. I guess the difference is the program no longer sniffs 5 star players or even Top 100 ones. IMHO, this program would be in better shape today had they not fired Bryce. It's definitely debatable but there would be more talented players wearing the black and gold. That having been said, I still pull for these guys and hope Stackhouse can get it done.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by buffy »

cc11316 wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 pm The program isn't in significantly better shape today than it was when Drew was fired after the winless SEC season. Next year is almost entirely dependent on Pippen and Disu whatever they decide and their state of health. I guess the difference is the program no longer sniffs 5 star players or even Top 100 ones. IMHO, this program would be in better shape today had they not fired Bryce. It's definitely debatable but there would be more talented players wearing the black and gold. That having been said, I still pull for these guys and hope Stackhouse can get it done.
Hmm. At this point, I do wonder where we would be. We would definitely have a bunch of good players on our team, but I think the narrative would be we win quite a few games, but no games that matter. I saw absolutely nothing in the three years CBD coached that suggested he could out-coach anybody. Nothing. As Ben Howland was quoted, " Good luck with that (sarcasm)". I think Stack can learn to be a good recruiter. I don't know if CBD could learn to be a good coach. What's done is done, so it's not like our input matters.

As a side note, Scott Drew carried the narrative of good recruiter and bad coach for years. But he made effortless adjustments when Mark Few tried to disrupt the flow of the national championship game the other night. I'm still just in awe of the futility of adjustment and hand claps and positive feedback nonsense of that season. It was historic failure.
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Re: It would appear...

Post by alwaysvu »

I have to say is Bryce should’ve got one more year at least the short time he was there was not enough to see what he could do with the program. He Beat Tennessee and had it taken away by the craziest call I’ve ever seen. You never know how the program would go under him. Both of the brothers were in the NCAA tournament this year. This is my opinion it doesn’t matter it’s over So I hope whoever is the coach can win .
Last edited by alwaysvu on Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: It would appear...

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cc11316 wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:31 pm
oakparkDore wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:12 am
Doresince89 wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:52 pm

Bryce did not inherit an NCAAT. The two best players on that team were drafted by the league. He then took a team minus those 2 without any addition and coached them back to the tourney. Let’s not pretend that “tourney team” was still intact.
I liked Bryce Drew a lot. Nice guy. Great representative of VU. When he recruited that unprecedented class, I remember doing my Thanksgiving “thanks” at the table for Bryce Drew (to some quizzical looks for my shallowness, LOL). I defended him on here. A lot. But ultimately, 0-18 is 0-18, regardless of injuries. You can’t defend that. You just can’t. A lot of worse teams talent wise (think of how bad some old Auburn and Ole Miss teams were) have managed to win 2-4 games in the conference. For whatever reason, he couldn’t make adjustments to fix that situation and came off looking more like a cheerleader than a leader. Shittu got worse throughout the year. Had we kept Bryce, we would have been tacitly saying that a winless SEC season is acceptable. You can’t have that message. I didn’t like him either, but Malcolm Turner is far from the only AD who would have made that decision. So unfortunately he needed to go. And you need to let it go too man.
The program isn't in significantly better shape today than it was when Drew was fired after the winless SEC season. Next year is almost entirely dependent on Pippen and Disu whatever they decide and their state of health. I guess the difference is the program no longer sniffs 5 star players or even Top 100 ones. IMHO, this program would be in better shape today had they not fired Bryce. It's definitely debatable but there would be more talented players wearing the black and gold. That having been said, I still pull for these guys and hope Stackhouse can get it done.
Would it be though? It is one thing to recruit to something with a lot of promise Getting Garland, Shittu and Nesmith on board after season two (a perhaps understandably down season following the loss of Kornet), but there is little doubt in my mind that we would have had a very, very bad 2020 season regardless of who was coach, with the two 5 star players moving on. Maybe the other players don't transfer, but does that matter? Drew had already proven he couldn't win with them plus more talent and hadn't developed anyone to that point - what possible scenario can you conjure up that has us winning more than 3 SEC games in 2020 under CBD?

And at that point, which top talent is coming to Vanderbilt following two disastrous seasons? What is the selling point? "I took a top 10 talent and turned him into an undrafted NBADL player"? I think it is incorrect to assume that CBD's recruiting would have continued at the level it was at moving forward. CBD's development of players was pretty bad during his time here as well, so there wasn't a real good reason for good players to come here to play for him after the disaster season of 2019.
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