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Box Score

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.

Moderators: NateSY, KarenYates, Vandyman74, roanoke, VandyWhit, kerrigjl, BrentVU, jfgogold

Jason94
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Box Score

Post by Jason94 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:51 pm

Solid win against a bad opponent, but interestingly enough, we had a lot of steals and created a lot of turnovers which tremendously made up for our poor rebounding, lack of FTA and poor shooting from the line when we got there.

Saben may not start, but he was dominating the ball in this game and was very effective despite not shooting well from three because he was able to get off so many shots and play with the ball in his hands constantly without turning it over tonight. This also allowed us to have a player like Evans on the floor, who is similar in a way to Toye in that he doesn't shoot the ball despite playing a wing position.

Brown was also notable because he looks to be the only player on our team who can grab offensive rebounds, and played 25 minutes without fouling.

We haven't had a team that has won the turnover battle in 10 years. This could be a significant stylistic change from previous coaching regimes, and one which is welcome. Hopefully CJS will be able to coach up other aspects of the team, because beyond Lee and Nesmith, we do not have a ton of talent.
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Nashmann
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Re: Box Score

Post by Nashmann » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:13 pm

Well, my PC froze & locked up with 6 and a half minutes to go!!! By the time I rebooted and got back, there was one min & we were up almost 20! I had to wait until they posted the replay. Glad they stuck with it and started making shots, steals and better D. Great ending for the win for team & CJS getting his first win. Been a long time since we had a regulation win. Kudos!
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roanoke
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Re: Box Score

Post by roanoke » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:51 am

I was encouraged by what I saw.

Talent-wise, Pippen is very good - but still needs a bit of experience which obviously will come. Nesmith and Lee are guys you can build a respectable team around. Brown looked great last night.

Having a fifth and sixth guy emerge who can score will be imperative come SEC play. Evans shot looks good going up - he needs confidence in it. Disu seemed uncomfortable after missing a few shots - but rebounded well and will likely emerge for extra playing time. I thought Obinna looked noticeably better too. Moyer is a plus - but needs to get garbage points around the hoop which he did not do last night. A lot of the young guys looked young - but CJS got them some game time. This led to SEMOs 16-2 run, but it was good to get everyone on the floor. The schedule will allow for chemistry building. Right now I am not sure we can find 5 offensive “threats” to be on the floor at the same time...

Bottom line - there was movement, we took care of the ball, shot well and played like we had a plan. All good. The defensive intensity and rebounding were not great. Need to get better. An 18 point win is good. Not panicking after blowing a pretty big lead was good too. Felt like team was being coached and liked being coached.
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rEvUrB
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Re: Box Score

Post by rEvUrB » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 am

Wet blanket:

While we scored a good amount of points, I wouldn't get used to it. This team is going to be incredibly offensively challenged. Got to 30 points relatively quickly thanks to early hot shooting but didn't reach 34 for about 40 minutes (half time was in this stretch)

Nesmith is going to need to be a 20ppg scorer for us to have a chance. He looks fantastic.

Lee had a good game but he still seems to have tunnel vision. He's going to the rim and he's not likely to pass it out. That's not going to work against better teams. Made a three in the second half but shot still looks like it's got a little hitch in it.

Pippen is quick but needs work on defense. He played the role of matador many times.

Moyer is a hustler. Block shots, steals, all over the place. Great glue guy. Poor mans Dennis Rodman. Still can't shoot a lick.

Clevon may have been the biggest bright spot for me. His shooting spearheaded our fast start. We need him to play big minutes this season. Watching him limp off was worrisome.

No one else really stood out to me. Obinna is a big man but still very raw. Max Evans played hard but didn't make a huge impact.

Struggled to get the ball in bounds several times. A bit concerned about a lack of inbounds plays to counter.

Our offense style honestly looks a lot like CBDs in that players are just allowed to create. No sign of Stallings-like sets. I just don't know if that's the way to win at the college level and I sure don't think this team has enough offensively gifted players to make it work. Same kinda style VBK tried to run too.

I don't know. Not going to try to read too much into one game but, I don't see any reason to believe this team is going to make a huge jump over last year.
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EllistonVU
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Re: Box Score

Post by EllistonVU » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 am

Jason94 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:51 pm
Solid win against a bad opponent, but interestingly enough, we had a lot of steals and created a lot of turnovers which tremendously made up for our poor rebounding, lack of FTA and poor shooting from the line when we got there.

Saben may not start, but he was dominating the ball in this game and was very effective despite not shooting well from three because he was able to get off so many shots and play with the ball in his hands constantly without turning it over tonight. This also allowed us to have a player like Evans on the floor, who is similar in a way to Toye in that he doesn't shoot the ball despite playing a wing position.

Brown was also notable because he looks to be the only player on our team who can grab offensive rebounds, and played 25 minutes without fouling.

We haven't had a team that has won the turnover battle in 10 years. This could be a significant stylistic change from previous coaching regimes, and one which is welcome. Hopefully CJS will be able to coach up other aspects of the team, because beyond Lee and Nesmith, we do not have a ton of talent.
Stupid turnovers were an epidemic last season. I missed the first half last night, but in watching the second half, there weren't many turnovers and the one called on Jordan Wright - I'm not convinced he stepped out of bounds and the player control foul on Obinna on a terrific strong move to the rim was BS. It should have been an and-one. I'd rather see an 18 point win that exposes what needs to be worked on than a 50 point win over the blind school.
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Matheta
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Re: Box Score

Post by Matheta » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:16 am

I agree with EllistonVU!!

I stated elsewhere that the tapes would give a whole lot of teaching material.

We actually ran sets!! We let SEMO get to the rim uncontested a few times. We have a couple of star power potential guys. I would rather have have five very solid guys.
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Nashmann
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Re: Box Score

Post by Nashmann » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:20 am

rEvUrB wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 am
Wet blanket:

While we scored a good amount of points, I wouldn't get used to it. This team is going to be incredibly offensively challenged. Got to 30 points relatively quickly thanks to early hot shooting but didn't reach 34 for about 40 minutes (half time was in this stretch)

Nesmith is going to need to be a 20ppg scorer for us to have a chance. He looks fantastic.

Lee had a good game but he still seems to have tunnel vision. He's going to the rim and he's not likely to pass it out. That's not going to work against better teams. Made a three in the second half but shot still looks like it's got a little hitch in it.

Pippen is quick but needs work on defense. He played the role of matador many times.

Moyer is a hustler. Block shots, steals, all over the place. Great glue guy. Poor mans Dennis Rodman. Still can't shoot a lick.

Clevon may have been the biggest bright spot for me. His shooting spearheaded our fast start. We need him to play big minutes this season. Watching him limp off was worrisome.

No one else really stood out to me. Obinna is a big man but still very raw. Max Evans played hard but didn't make a huge impact.

Struggled to get the ball in bounds several times. A bit concerned about a lack of inbounds plays to counter.

Our offense style honestly looks a lot like CBDs in that players are just allowed to create. No sign of Stallings-like sets. I just don't know if that's the way to win at the college level and I sure don't think this team has enough offensively gifted players to make it work. Same kinda style VBK tried to run too.

I don't know. Not going to try to read too much into one game but, I don't see any reason to believe this team is going to make a huge jump over last year.
Best description yet! Lots to work on even though a few bright spots. I agree we do not have enough skilled players to create their own shots. Need more plays. I was not pleased how we lost a 17 point lead but pleased they hung on and then pulled away! Good first game!!
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Versus75
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Re: Box Score

Post by Versus75 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:24 am

We cannot continue to average 34 3-point shots per game. Against a team like SEMO, Vanderbilt should be able to post someone up inside (Ejike did it a couple times) and get to the rim other than a guard driving from outside.
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OldDude
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Re: Box Score

Post by OldDude » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:37 am

Versus75 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:24 am
We cannot continue to average 34 3-point shots per game. Against a team like SEMO, Vanderbilt should be able to post someone up inside (Ejike did it a couple times) and get to the rim other than a guard driving from outside.
Agree the post could be our Albatross, we don't have an SEC level big man. The defensive speed / physicality we will face in the league will not give us the chance to beat folks up with open 3s or drive easily. Need to develop a post presence somehow.
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alathIN
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Re: Box Score

Post by alathIN » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:43 am

Pumping the brakes on resurgent optimism with a dose of pessimism is probably warranted.
But I disagree about Max Evans having little impact. He's always been a good defender. Coming out of HS he was reputed to be a 3 point specialist - which we have seen very little of. He went 2 for 3 outside the arc this game.
If he can be a solid defender and a credible - not great, just credible - 3 point shooter I think he will be a contributor. He doesn't have to be a Billy McCaffery who can launch a three anywhere any time - but if he's just a guy you can't leave unguarded out there, he could be a valuable recipient of assists from a driving Lee or Pippen.
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cc11316
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Re: Box Score

Post by cc11316 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:32 pm

Went to the game and without the benefit of hearing Joe's broadcast which gives lots of insight .. I'm really not sure what to think. The hot start and the 11-0 lead got me excited as Brown hit those first two three-pointers but it was obvious that couldn't be sustained.

The final 8 minutes of the first half felt alot like last year in that they couldn't stay in position defensively. I was hoping they would stop trying to defend their guards 1:1 because they kept getting beat. The rebounding was poor and SEMO got many easy baskets while Vandy was settling for 3-pointers and turning the ball over to allow them to tie it at the half. Scoring just 2 points in the final 8 minutes was kind of demoralizing and going in to the half, I honestly questioned if they were going to win the game.

In the second half, it looked like it was going to be a dog-fight to get the win as I remember it being a one-point game (51-50 I think) with about 10 minutes remaining. Then some threes started dropping, Nesmith and Lee both hit big 3's in that period and Vandy went up by 10 and I don't think SEMO got closer than 5 for the rest of the night. The last 4 minutes of the game allowed Vandy to go on a bit of a run making the score seem worse than what the game really was. I would say this felt like a 6-8 point win as you can definitely see the potential of this group but there are many, many things in which they need to improve.

CJS is calm on the sideline and actually seemed to sit most of the game (I didn't know coaches still did that) but he got vocal when necessary. That sideline seems to have a lot of expertise in some veteran coaches and a calming presence so that was kind of nice as it is a culture which allows players to improve.
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VandyPhile
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Re: Box Score

Post by VandyPhile » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:47 am

We seemed overly reliant on the three point shot. How the game went was reflective of whether they were going in or not. I doubt that is sustainable.
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