OT: Pete Maravich record …

[Versus75]

… of total points scored in NCAA D1 varsity basketball to fall and Seth Greenberg said it was a record he thought would never be broken.

Well, I guess he hadn’t thought about 3-point baskets, longer seasons, freshman eligibility and a Covid Season.

Maravich’s total points record was created in 83 games.

LSU couldn’t go to the NCAA Tournament without winning the SEC — which it never did.
There was no conference tournament.
The season was only 26 games long.
LSU did make the NIT Final Four one year and got to play a consolation game after losing the semis.

Still, Pistol Pete only played 83 games. But he averaged over 44 points per game. And that was without getting credit for 3 points on long-range shots. And without getting credit for 741 freshman team points.

Now, Antoine Davis of Detroit — who played 5 seasons thanks to Covid — is about to break the record in OVER 140 GAMES, scoring less than 30 ppg.


And Seth Greenberg is surprised? It would be like Roger Maris breaking Babe Ruth’s record playing a 250-game season.
Yeah, that could happen.

[commadore]

Should be an * beside that record.

[docdore]

i'd love to see pistol pete one on one against antoine davis. pete would fake ad out of his jockstrap....

[mathguy]

Still never thought it would be broken ... even if this guy did get a 3point line and the chance to play a 5th year because of COVID.

Still an incredible accomplishment, even if the guy isn't Pete Maravich.

[OldDude]

Maravich was the most incredible person I ever saw on the court. Somehow to me he always looked a little awkward (maybe it was the socks) and yet everything he did was a work of art.

[Versus75]

I didn’t even mention the level of competition or the talent on his roster.

Maravich scored his 44+ ppg against some of the best teams in the country.

Detroit plays in the Horizon League with teams like IUPUI, Purdue-Fort Wayne and Oakland (not even the one in California) … and usually plays at least one non-Division I team a year.

Davis has been a 5-year starter at Detroit but would have likely been a bench player at first for any SEC team. Well, he may have started for Vanderbilt but would not have played 37 minutes per game from the outset.

[mathguy]

I didn’t even mention the level of competition or the talent on his roster.

Maravich scored his 44+ ppg against some of the best teams in the country.

Davis has been a 5-year starter at Detroit but would have likely been a bench player at first for any SEC team. Well, he may have started for Vanderbilt but would not have played 37 minutes per game from the outset.

Now, I would never besmirch Pete Maravich (and seriously, I acknowledge Maravich is an all time great and his record is amazing ... whatever I'm about to say, even in his own time no one came close to doing what he did), but a few things to consider...

1) Ummm ... Maravich also averaged THIRTY EIGHT field goal attempts a game for three years!! College Basketball reference lists Maravich with 3166 FGA in 3 years. On their global leaderboard, they only track FGA since 1985 (don't ask me why) but among all players since 1985, this guy Davis is the career leader with 2961. Second place is Lionel Simmons with 2482. So in the last 40 years, forget points, no one has come within 700 SHOT ATTEMPTS of Maravich.

2) I can't find really good global college stats comparing eras. So I'm going to substitute NBA stats for a minute. In 1968-1969, the middle of Maravich's 3 years, the NBA league as a whole, averaged 99 shot attempts per team per game. This year, in the midst of an ABSURD offensive explosion, the NBA is averaging 88.2. Ten years ago that number was 82. Twenty years ago it was 80.8. So in the NBA we are taking 10-12% fewer shots then we were back in Maravich's heyday. If we assume that NCAA ball is similar...

3) None of this is to say Maravich wasn't great. He clearly was an elite player. I'm just saying that it is not so simple as to say "with the 3 point line, Maravich would average 50 in today's game!" Rather, I think the game has changed making Maravich's record something like Cy Young's 511 wins or Wayne Gretzky's 215 point season ... 511 wins is amazing, and a lot more than anyone else ever got even in Cy Young's time ... but if Cy Young played today he'd still be on a pitch count instead of being expected to finish almost every game and in a 5 man rotation instead of a 3 man one. And Gretzky is the absolute GOAT ... but he was also the highest scoring NHL player in the highest scoring era of the NHL. So it's not like even Gretzky could have a 215 point season today. I'm saying that if Maravich played today he'd still be great ... probably an all-American ... and he'd average 24ppg instead 44 because no one is letting him launch 38 shots a game.

[MrMemorial]

Detroit Mercy is not an elite mid-major but it was good enough that Harvey who was on scholarship at both Notre Dame and Vanderbilt was not a starter there and was not even considered a particularly good player.

The mock drafts have Davis as a 2nd round NBA pick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCCX6KdWdUs

[geeznotagain]

For math:

Forget stats for a moment. Did you see the guy play?

[mathguy]

For math:

Forget stats for a moment. Did you see the guy play?

I admit that, no. I am too young.

And by all accounts, the dude was amazing. So I'm sure he was. And I'm POSITIVE he was a lot better than the guy about to break his record.

But I sincerely doubt he would average 44ppg if he played today. I've seen too many guys - from Bird, to Jordan, to Curry, to Durant, to Shaq who were demonstrably better than Maravich at the NBA level who never even seriously approached Maravich's NCAA numbers. So that tells me there is an era effect going on.

Again, that doesn't mean Maravich wasn't all he's cracked up to be. But last night UK attempted 59 shots against us. Maravich *averaged* 38 a game. He can be both an elite player and benefit from the era he played in.

[docdore]

pete's coach (also his dad press) knew that the only chance his lsu team had at victory then was for pete to put up all those shots...and pete was more than willing to oblige. watching him perform at memorial was one of the highlights of my dore viewing "career", which dates to 1958.

[Mcflash]

My days at Memorial go back to 1958 too, and Maravich was the best player I've seen play there.

[geeznotagain]

My days at Memorial go back to 1958 too, and Maravich was the best player I've seen play there.

Maybe Johnny Neumann (Ole Miss) second? Circa 1970. Assuming we are talking opponents. I think he may have dropped 60 on us at Memorial the one year he played. Not as flashy as Pistol Pete, but almost as effective.

[Ndorefin]

THE RECORD STANDS!!! Davis finishes his career 3 points shy of the record after scoring 22 points in his final game. (Unless the team gets invited to a post season tournament)

It wouldn’t surprise me if they got invited to the Basketball Classic Tournament in order for him to break the record. The team’s record is 14-19.

[Doreknox]

For math:

Forget stats for a moment. Did you see the guy play?

I admit that, no. I am too young.

And by all accounts, the dude was amazing. So I'm sure he was. And I'm POSITIVE he was a lot better than the guy about to break his record.

But I sincerely doubt he would average 44ppg if he played today. I've seen too many guys - from Bird, to Jordan, to Curry, to Durant, to Shaq who were demonstrably better than Maravich at the NBA level who never even seriously approached Maravich's NCAA numbers. So that tells me there is an era effect going on.

Again, that doesn't mean Maravich wasn't all he's cracked up to be. But last night UK attempted 59 shots against us. Maravich *averaged* 38 a game. He can be both an elite player and benefit from the era he played in.

Look at some NBA highlight vids of Maravich on Youtube. He was schooling all kinds of legendary NBA players, including Walt Frazier, Oscar Robertson and Dr J - all of whom in their prime would play at a high level in today's game. And, unlike the other stars you mentioned, Pete's Jazz teams had one or two decent players and that was about it. His LSU teams didn't have much, either.

As far as the NCAA scoring record, Maravich played before the days of the 3 point shot. He would have probably averaged over 50 a game if it had been in effect.

[geeznotagain]

In addition to stats, Pete did it with FLAIR. And that's an understatement. I admit that it was not team-oriented basketball 100% of the time, but it was entertaining as hell. Wow, could he handle the ball! The best I have ever seen, I think. Behind the back passes. No-look passes. Hook shots from 15-18 feet. Scoop shots from 10-12 feet. And because he played on a poor LSU team, the other team could easily afford to double and triple team him. That's the main reason his shooting percentage was so low.

[docdore]

i thought pete’s ball handling and passing surpassed his shooting/scoring.

[A32Win]

I remember the1969 LSU game in Memorial. Pete scored 46 pts and Vandy won the game 94-92!

[docdore]

THE RECORD STANDS!!! Davis finishes his career 3 points shy of the record after scoring 22 points in his final game. (Unless the team gets invited to a post season tournament)

It wouldn’t surprise me if they got invited to the Basketball Classic Tournament in order for him to break the record. The team’s record is 14-19.

is it possible that some also-ran tourney could invite this losing team in order to glean publicity when the record is broken? hopefully not....

[Versus75]

The also-ran tournaments do not require teams to have winning records. Texas A&M went to one a few years back; maybe some others from SEC.

Until that point I thought SEC had unwritten rule to not participate in other than NCAA or NIT.